14-13-2 wing tip lights.

No, Gary, they did not. I've seen them, but they need to be installed during restoration or the like. It's damned near impossible to wire them on a working wing, alas. I asked a Master of the Impossible (Joe Sills, who's on this forum because he's restoring a 14-19 for a customer) and he said No-way. There have been discussions on this forum about this in the past with similar conclusions. Delving into them will give you a better idea of what's involved than I ever could.

Jonathan
 
Jonathan,
The good news is I have already pulled two sets of wires through my wings as they are still on the stands. The bad news...the wing tip lights that I have acquired do not have the strobes in them so I will need to exchange them or at least try to find the right lens covers and add the strobe lights.
Thanks for the information.
Gary
 
If they're the old Grimes design, I believe there is an add-on strobe kid designed to simply attach to those lights.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/a650addons.php

Jonathan
 
Yep! And $400 later I have wing tip lights with strobes as well as the power supply. Now if I can just get that damned wire back out so I can put the correct wire for strobes in the wings... :cry:
Gary
 
On ebay from time to time you can find the old style wing tip and tail lights. They look like a streamlined drop (rather than half a drop) that extends from the wing on a short stalk and don't include strobes. They look much more correct for the period and I had a set on my 14-13-2 with a separate strobe on the belly.
 
My "experts" told me that I didn't need strobe lights...unless I wanted to fly at night. What?? Well heck yes I will fly at night. I also was told that in due time, all aircraft that fly after dark will be required to have wingtip strobe lights. True or not, I thought that I should bite the bullet now and get it right. I have replaced every wire, cable, chain, window, etc. and I still have a long way to go before it flys but I want it done right and I will not take any shortcuts. :D
Gary
 
There have often been fears, Gary, of retroactive requirements. Some are true (e.g. transponders for airplanes with electric systems, and ELTs) but most airplanes are grandfathered for others. Shoulder harnesses are an example (though you REALLY should have them), N-numbers, and the ability to use the old NC numbers on older aircraft.

The Feds are talking mandatory retrofits of boxes [probably Mode-S transponders] to help traffic avoidance gear and reduce workload on ATC, plus we will need new ELTs in a few years. I would have added wing tip strobes myself if it were possible at the time. The new HID landing lights are nifty, use less juice, go through far fewer bulbs, and are BRIGHT. But they're costly.

There may be grandfathered requirements currently on external night lighting, but I'm not sure. All belly strobes, or rotating beacons, were either not available for Cruisairs and 14-19s or were optional. My old rotating beacon grinder was a retrofit.

Nonetheless, more flashing lights are better. If you have your wings at a point where you can adding flashing lights, it seems a wise idea. Those aircraft I encounter at night with wing tip strobes that go through light show cycles, though, seem a bit much :)

Jonathan
 
And if you look for STC for strobes on 14-13-2, It does not exist and I spoke to Whellen about it. They politely told me to go and play in the traffic. Only available for 19's and up. Had to remove mine for import to Canada. 337 field aproval was not enough because located on an aerodymamic controlled surface

Like some of you guys told me...better be legal then safe right! really!
Wondering if STC required for belly and back strobe!

Alain.
 
Some FSDO's like ours, but I am sure not all, consider a strobe on the belly a minor mod only requiring a log book entry because it is not on a control surface. I bought an Ercoupe four years ago and the sellers IA was holding up the annual because of a belly strobe that had been on the aircraft for 10 years. This guy had been signing off the annuals for years and then decided to get cold feet over it. I told him to forget it and signed off the annual when I got it home. I asked the FSDO here for their opinion and he told me to not worry about it.


Kevin
 
Don't know if it will help, but I have a 337 for Whelen A429 strobe/nav lights from 1984 for mine. Will be glad to send if you want. This 337 actually is for 13 separate changes! Ahhh the good old days!

I can't help but wonder if this really would be a major alteration requiring a 337. I was once told that if you can get the A&P who does /supervises the installation to make a log book entry that states that this work was NOT a major alteration, it would be incumbent on the FAA to prove otherwise.
My reading of FAR 43 APP A would let me argue that this was not "Changes to the basic design of the ...electrical...systems." I also can't help but wonder if it was installed properly that the FAA would actually make you take it out!?
 
I would agree that it is not a change in the "basic" design.
I would also agree that if aircraft quality lighting systems are used and the installation instructions are followed and the installing A&P can adhear to FAR 43 Sec. 43.13 "performance rules". It is not a Major alteration and a log book entry is all that is needed. The catch is in FAR 43 , Sec A43.1 (a) (1) (xi) where it states something like "any change that causes an increase in empty weight or a change in C.G." IS a major alteration. SO , if your lighting "strobe" system and be installed with no increase in weight and or no change in C.G. , I can see valid argument here.
Most FSDO's maintenance / airworthiness inspectors are open to these type of discussions and most would agree. But it is always best to ask first rather than try to get it approved after it has been installed. For the "do it yourself'ers" , someone with a A&P / IA ticket is going to have to eventually sign the bottom line to make your aircraft "airworthy" . When you contact your FSDO and get an inspector on the line , he is going to ask who is going to sign off the paperwork so have an A&P/ IA linned up and in the loop first.
By the FAR's you still have to be "supervised".
Look at a new revision of the FAR's 43 under "preventitive maintenance" and read it thru carefully and then tell me that the aircraft owner can do the work without the supervision of a rated mechanic. I know it has been the norm and most aircraft owners that would own an aging wood and steel tube airplane do alot of the maintenance and upkeep themselves , but to keep to the "letter of the law" .......

I must have gotten a shot of Jonathan in me to go on like this....

Time to go to work..
 
Whelen offers a single strobe that attaches to the top of the vertical rudder and is sufficient for night flying. It weighs .3 pounds and would not affect weight and balance (ignoring a power supply). The wingtip lights I mentioned earlier are to be found in the univair catalog-electrical section (on line) and is called the Grimes Type B. my 14-13 had them and they looked so period appropriate (as apposed to the combined strobe/position light)
 
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