14-13 aileron cable "issue"

R

ronm

Member
Hi All,
I have had a 14-13 (mod -2) for several decades and actually used to fly it and enjoyed the heck out of it. It has been dormant (as well as me) for quite a while now, but I want to start on it again, complete the re-furbish and get it going.

One of the problems it has always had is binding in the aileron circuit which I want to address. If the cables are rigged close to normal tension, friction is unacceptably high. So, it was always flown with very little cable tension. The A&P in me says that is not so good. The Engineer in me says it could even be dangerous at high speeds.

I managed to replace the plain bearing pulleys with some drop in surplus a/c ball bearing units years ago. That lead me to the main culprit which is the geometry of the cables at the station just outboard of the landing gear. There is considerable cable deflection there as the cable goes through what should be a fairlead or even a pulley, but is just a hole in a wood block in the rib with the cable sawing away at the wood.

Is this early serial number a/c unique or are they all like that? Maybe some one has got some ideas or ??? Like been there, done this.

Stand by for a few more questions as I get going.

Ron Marks N86716
 
I have the wings removed from a 14-13 with safety wire currently run along the route the cables would normally be. I will try to take a look tomorrow to see if there is an interference issue just outboard of the landing gear. Probably can get to it either tomorrow night or maybe Friday.
 
If you do rerig your cables please don't forget AD 79-19-05. I got a whole bunch of Cruisair parts from someone who did forget it.

79-19-05 BELLANCA: Amendment 39-3551. Applies to all Bellanca Model 14-13 aircraft, certificated in all categories.
Compliance required within the next 10 hours in service after the effective date of this AD, unless already accomplished.
Inspect the aileron control system for correct rigging and proper operation. If reversal of control system is detected, rerig the system correctly.

NOTE: Do not use the Bellanca 14-13 Handbook for guidance in rigging procedure as the aileron system depicted on page 14, Figure 11, is shown in reverse.

This amendment is effective September 10, 1979.
 
Well thanks GF. No hurry, but something I very much want to get squared away. I hope to be able to return the assist to any and all. I may do an STC for a wing leveler/auto-pilot if necessary and a few other things before it's done. All will be welcome to share.

The balance cable (to the upper aileron horn) exits the fuselage just above the floorboard/longeron not far ahead of the spar and needs to rise above the gear main strut - thus the kink. Now I am starting to wonder if the fore/aft position of that cable is normal. (That area of the a/c was rebuilt by Northrup school in the ''50's-60's so anything is possible.)

r
 
Thanks for the reminder Larry. Grimly, reversed ailerons will likely be resolved in just a few seconds of flight. Years ago during a long xc in a Funk BL-75, I tried using the middle rudder pedals (reversed action of course) and inadvertently almost snap rolled the plane. Instincts once developed are hard to overcome.
ron
 
Hi Ron,
The parts that I got were from a man in Taft, CA who also rebuilt his Cruisair. He ALSO had strung as he removed his old cables. His was the kind of hangar that every one came and went...like all of ours, and someone pulled out his tracer line. So, the next morning he spent the day rerigging according to the manual...and forgot about the AD. He was a very experienced person, and very much owned up to what he had done...after he got out of the hospital. He did his runup, and saw that indeed the ailerons moved when he turned the yoke Unfortunately he didn't verify the correct direction. Like they say, old age ain't for sissies! Though you don't have to be old to make that mistake!
Larry
 
Interesting. Anyone who has been around a while could predict that the outcome of crossed aileron cables will likely be sudden if flight is attempted
So, it strikes me that the AD as written is almost droll humor. It says in effect: "check for crossed aileron cables within the next 10 hours of flight". Like maybe you just didn't quite notice when you took it around the patch. A real hoot. Who says the FAA can't be funny.

Hum, I think I hijacked my own thread. Back to business. I really DO want to know what is going on with this aileron riggin'.

GFHawker, thanks again when you get to it. The proper(or normal) location of the cables at the rib outboard of the gear will help a lot. Also, the position of the cables at the root rib, particularly the balance cable near the bottom at the root rib would be helpful from anyone who has the fairings off an assembled a/c and can make a measurement.

The question really is: How does the balance cable get over or around the gear strut without a deflection from its low position at the root?

Editorial: I think, in some ways, the '46 14-13 was still in beta when it was sold. I wouldn't faint if we found this to be a factory error. Just like the upper cowl being solidly attached to BOTH the engine baffle and airframe, and why the firewall/cowl brackets break. Maybe that is why is is so much fun. We're getting it ready for production!

Ron Marks
 
Ron,

Not sure if this is the problem or not but your geometry differs greatly from mine. My airplane is a 14-13-3, serial number 1618. IS your balance cable sawing at the top of the hole that is through the wood rib just outside of the gear? If that's so I think I know what your problem is. That balance cable should be below the floorboard, not above. There are slots in the floorboard that are lateral to the line of flight just below the pulley for the cable that travels out to the bottom control horn of the ailerons. The balance cable is supposed to travel through that slot, under the floor board, through a small pulley that is mounted on a welded bracket in the center of the airplane below the floor board. That pulley is about 5 inches forward of the forward carry through structure and is angled slightly forward. The cable then would travel through the opposite floorboard slot and into the wing root. Like the other side this balance cable would pass just below the pulley that carries the other cable that goes to the lower control horn of the other aileron.

Sorry so long winded, and certainly hope it helps. Let me know if that's the case.

Cheers.

RT
 
Not long winded at all RT, good word picture. My own prev description was obviously a bit fuzzy though.

My balance cable is just as you describe for your -3. The cable as it is rigged from the center pulley, rises through the floorboard slot area over the longeron, passes above the gear leg and through the rib hole. It then goes to the aileron pulley at a shallower rise. Since the cable is lifted by the hole, the sawing is to the bottom of the rib hole. Knowing the location of your -3's balance cable hole at the rib outboard of the gear may tell the story. According to the logs there was LE rib replacement as well, so little is certain what was original.

The 5 inch dimension from the spar to the little center pulley is good info. It will eliminate or confirm if the fore/aft location is right. Progress.

Ron Marks N86716 ser1077
 
I fly for a living so my schedule is a bit up in the air and leaving on a trip as we speak. I will be back Thursday afternoon and will make some measurements that evening. Hope that's not too long to wait.

RT
 
Made some measurements tonight. I hope that I can textually describe clearly enough that it helps. All of these measurements are based on no skin on the wing, i.e. the measurements I took in relation to the nose rib (just outboard of gear bay) are to the edge (top and bottom) and do not include the thickness of the outer skin of the rib.

At the point that the cables run through the rib the rib is 8 and 5/16 inches tall. There is a phenolic block that the cables run through on that rib that is 1 and 3/4 inches tall. The bottom edge of that block is 2 and 3/4 inches above the bottom edge of that rib. The phenolic block has both cables running through it, with the cable in question running through the bottom hole in that block. The holes are both 5/8 inch in diameter and the centers of the holes are 3/4 inch apart. As I am typing this I realize that I did not get a good measurement between the bottom edge of the rib and the center of the bottom hole in the phenolic block. Assuming the dimensions of the block match I would assume they are the same part, and if that's the case the measurement you would most be interested in is the distance between the bottom edge of the rib and the bottom edge of the block, which is 2 and 3/4 inches.

I really hope this helps, please let me know if it doesn't. I will try to get a good measurement from the bottom edge of the rib to the center of the bottom hole. Let me know if I can help further.

RT
 
One last measurement that should really help. From the bottom edge of the rib to the center of the lower hole (in the phenolic block) is 3 and 5/16 inches. Please let me know if I didn't describe well enough and I will take pictures and attach them with notes.

Hope all is well.

Cheers.

RT
 
After seeing how the cables pass through that rib I had a thought. Does the top cable also deflect and rub too much?
 
by gfhawker » Jan 30, 2012 4:40 am:
"I fly for a living so my schedule is a bit up in the air... "

OK, be on the alert for this kind of humor, folks! Especially from Heavy Iron Guys. That is their nature.:D

Anyway, thanks RT, for the very diligent research. This will really help pinpoint what may be wrong and help narrow down how to get the friction down to a normal level. I will visit the Old Hanger Queen in a day or so and compare your measurements to mine and see what is different. One thing that is is the phenolic block fairlead. Mine and probably other older models have a built-in wooden block in the rib with 2 holes vertically arranged as guides.

Slightly off topic, I am contemplating/dreaming of/researching doing at least a wing leveler install based on one of these EFIS wonder boxes. Putting a servo on a mechanically barfy aileron circuit would be more difficult. Approval? Well, I have done a lot of flying myself and I think a little help is very important when flying The System single pilot.

BTW, apologies RT, for the slow response. I am a freebie board member of a small local utility company where some serious no-no's were recently discovered. Very distracting. Anything to keep us away from things airplane .

ron marks
 
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