14-19-3 Engine Driven Fuel Pump

Rob58

Rob58

Moderator
Fuel pump issues seem to be getting a lot of attention - well they are important! I am trouble-shooting a fuel issue on one of my 14-19-3 machines. I wanted to know what fuel pump was certified with the airplane so I pulled out a copy of TC 1A3. What I found was no mention of the engine driven pump for the -3 or -3A. The boost pump was listed, but not the engine driven pump model or type. Does this mean that the fuel pump is considered a component integral to the engine itself; could it be a Continental component? Any ideas about this? Thanks... Rob
 
The engine driven pump is part of the IO-470 on the 14-19-3. Pretty sure you have to pull the engine to remove the pump, so you have that to look forward to. In the -3, the pump is partially accessible through the little recessed cover in the firewall above the pilot pedals, at least enough to do the fuel pressure adjustment guide from Continental.
 
I have been checking on fuel pump for the -2. I have Lear Romec RD7420-A2. There is nobody on the Internet with this pump. No repair overhaul nothing. I contacted Quality AA and even they won't touch it. I have never had one apart so I am reluctant to press on with this. Once in a while on the three in one gauge I see the needle bouncing. Turning the electric pump on or doing the wobble pump fixes that instantly so I assume it is the engine pump causing this. Power setting doesn't seem to matter. Crate has a mind of it's own, I'm just along for the ride HA HA. Lynn the crate
 
I had these guys do mine in '14. Came back working perfectly.

D & G Supply
P.O. Box 430
1916 Industrial Drive
Niles, Michigan 49120
800-446-8160
269-684-4440
 
Rob, the crate has an electric fuel pump along with the wobble and Lear Romec. There is nothing in the airframe or engine logs as to it's origin. I assumed that it was there when in was built. This thing has been wrecked and repaired by Weber and Bellanca when John Lazer owned it, he lived in Wisconsin. I do have a drawing #1443-00-1 for a Dukes 14v fuel pump. The drawing shows only the pump and that is what is installed in the crate. My logs do mention installation of new fuel valve and lines back in Jan 83. The pump is mounted on lower left firewall. The fuel flow is from the single lever valve to wobble pump to electric pump to Lear Romec engine pump to the carb. Since Bellanca has no parts or service manual for -2 I assume they made it like a later model maybe. I don't know even looking at all the books from BC club not much is shown in the way of fuel systems. Maybe Dan C. has some idea about this set up. Lynn :?:
 
Very interesting Lynn! I hope Dan shares some of his insight on this. There is so much about the old Bellancas that lacks documentation. On my -3 I was puzzled why they put the boost pump out in the left wing root when there is plenty of room under the seat or on the firewall. Fuel injection adds a lot of plumbing what with the return fuel line to each tank. I guess we never stop learning about these birds and in some cases the mysteries will never get solved.
 
The fuel line and engine driven pump on my -3 is probably the thing I'm most paranoid about in the whole plane.
It penetrates the firewall on the starboard side, then crosses *behind* the engine to get to the pump on the port side. In the process it comes dangerously close to the generator drive pulley and belt. I got the plane with a new overhaul engine that had 3 hours on it, The previous owner replaced all the flex fuel lines with some high-end brand hoses (cant recall the name brand) including the section that crossed behind the engine. About 20 hours later I did an annual and discovered that the belt had been slapping the hose and it was nearly worn through! I could also see polished areas on some sheet metal caused by belt rubbing. Primary cause was a loose belt but still...
I made a new one with Parker hose and replaceable fittings but before I installed the fittings I fashioned a copper tube to act as an armor cover for the area that got close to the moving parts on the back of the engine. And yes, I had to remove the engine to do all this since it's so close the firewall you really cant do anything to that area while it's still hanging on the plane. I'd advise anyone with FI to pay special attention to that hose and to belt tension.
That weird 180 degree path the power and mixture bowdens make to get to the fuel control is kinda wacky too along with the very short stroke between idle and full power

the upside? Dang! that FI works fantastic! Simple, elegant, dead-even head and exhaust temps and whoohee! that baby hauls butt.

Red Arrow = Fuel FIttings - Yellow Arrow is wear from belt slap
xoP3HPd.jpg


Travel Snap Shot Tax: Beech D18 at Nevada Brothel.. Great Story on how it got there.. My wife and I were on our way to the Reno Races...

dezTMRW.jpg
 
Bill, no question about it... I learn something from every one of your posts! Thanks for the detail. After looking at your pictures and reading about the fuel line issue I am going to pull the engine in order to put my new fuel system back together and fashion the armor shield as you mention. Makes it a lot easier to really clean things up too. What I don't understand is the relationship between the fuel system and the Nevada brothel, except that either one can get a guy in some real trouble... guess we need to hear more about this... Rob
 
Well, I just got back from AAA fly-in at Blakesburg....missed you Lynn. A 2000 mile drive in my pickup, hauling two aircraft engines. My -2 has the underwing drains, vented caps and single fuel valve. It is a mid-production airplane. I don't think any of the -2s had a factory boost pump....though it could be useful.
My 14-13 has a 12v boost pump that was installed in the '60s with a logbook entry.
One thing to consider is that more Bellancas have come out of the sky with fuel tank/pilot fuel management issues than any other cause.
 
Martin Induction Systems told me they cannot do the Lear Romec RD7420 that is on the crate. The manual is $1500 bucks and since the 7420 is seldom seen not worth the money. They did tell me that Ken Shaden at Aircraft Accessories of Tulsa would be able to do it. I e-mailed him so lets see if this will work. Lynn the crate
 
I sent mine to:
D & G Supply
P.O. Box 430
1916 Industrial Drive
Niles, Michigan 49120
800-446-8160
269-684-4440
Works fine now :)
 
My engine log shows the Lear on my -2 was rebuilt in '08 by RLB Accessory Service in Addison, IL. I did a quick Google search and they are still around, might be worth a call.

I had fluctuating fuel pressure and it turned out to be bad shaft packing on the wobble pump. It was drawing air.

-Ryan
 
I just got an e-mail from D&G Supply, they will do the RD7420 overhaul and provide 8130 tag. Cost will be $1350 and 5 day turn time. Have not heard from Aircraft Acc of Tulsa yet. Lynn never did hear from Tulsa but D&G will get the job.
 
Well, I finally got around to the crate's fuel pump. I just finished doing the starter adapter on TSIO 550. I thought well that was pretty tough but the fuel pump was just as bad. You start by removing the generator, then the generator mount bracket. This is the bear. It has two bolts, the one forward is a thru bolt stud that goes to #1 cylinder. On the generator side is a 3/4" nut that is difficult to access. I ended up grinding a 3/4" cylinder base wrench to move the nut and that's when I discovered this a thru bolt. We ended up modifying a cheap 9/16" Chinese wrench to hold #1 nut while I tried to remove the3/4 nut. Lots of swearing and it was off. Then there is another bracket arm for the generator that needs to be swung up out of the way. Now there are 4 hoses and 4 nuts to remove the pump. One nut you cannot see and have to do by feel. It was removed and Yippee the problem was obvious. The spline drive was worn so bad that it nearly fell out. I knew that because I changed the wet pump on this plane years ago and the drive looked just like the fuel pump. I had to mount the pump in a big vise to remove the 4 fittings. There is no need to make them so tight if you use Titeseal on the threads. Off it went to D&G. I just wanted to post my experience with this and I don't think I will have as much trouble installing it but I will let you boys know if I do. Lynn the crate
 
Good info Lynn... and I share your pain. Through my journey with the fuel pump upgrade months ago I have added many homemade wrenches to my toolbox. I also have a collection of scars on my hands and forearms to remind me of the fun.
 
Boys, I got the pump installed and plumbed with new fittings and hardware. D&G did a real nice job, pricey but it got overhauled with all the proper paper work. The hardest part was torquing the generator bracket thru bolt to 40'lbs. had a custom made 9/16 " wrench and ground down 3/4 in cyl wrench. Success. Lynn the crate :D
 
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