aileron hinges.
- Thread starter peterdeon
- Start date
NC74392
New member
I had to make a cutout large enough to get a shaved-down socket on the bolt heads using an extension. They were about 1" x 2" with rounded corners to prevent wood splitting.
On to the REALLY fun part. I had to remove the bracket bolts and slide some fender washers UNDER the brackets. Reason? When tightened the brackets, they pulled the aileron in too close to the wing and caused the aileron to rub. :?
The other reason I had to get inside the wing was my ailerons were hanging down under the wing when in neutral position. Talk about adding some drag! The surgery gave me a chance to not only retighten the aileron hinge brackets, but to reduce some parasitic drag by making the airflow smooth under the wing once more.
So it's not ALL bad!
But, yeah- you will have to cut, you will have to turn a 3/8 socket down to a paper thin wall to fit inside the "lip" of the aileron bracket base. If this doesn't make sense now, when you open the wing it will.
On to the REALLY fun part. I had to remove the bracket bolts and slide some fender washers UNDER the brackets. Reason? When tightened the brackets, they pulled the aileron in too close to the wing and caused the aileron to rub. :?
The other reason I had to get inside the wing was my ailerons were hanging down under the wing when in neutral position. Talk about adding some drag! The surgery gave me a chance to not only retighten the aileron hinge brackets, but to reduce some parasitic drag by making the airflow smooth under the wing once more.
So it's not ALL bad!
But, yeah- you will have to cut, you will have to turn a 3/8 socket down to a paper thin wall to fit inside the "lip" of the aileron bracket base. If this doesn't make sense now, when you open the wing it will.
Thanks for the advice, but I'm still a bit confused as to how to chop the wing open. Where does one place a hole. I assume on the underside. Do you make a square cut out and then scarf in a patch to repair the hole when you are done?? Where would one put the hole. Inboard? How far in from the trailing edge. Will one hole do the trick. To be honest, I have no idea what the aileron hinge bolts on to and how. Is it screwed into the rear spar?? Is there a block that it is bolted through??. I have no roadmap and would love a more detailed description Thanks, Peter
NC74392
New member
Once you remove the ailerons you will see the trailing edge of the wing- the "cutout" for the aileron. I cut my hole to the outside of the aileron bracket exit hole in the trailing edge and included the bracket through hole in the cutout. In other words, I made the aileron bracket through hole ALOT wider.
Just to be clear, I did not make more holes in the bottom of the wing. Instead I made them in the trailing edge of the wing. The reason I did it that way was because I had to replace a broken aileron hingev bracket. You may well have easier acess from the bottom of the wing, but lining up the cut so you don't cut into a rib may be tricky. Entering from the TE eliminated that risk at least
Once I completed the shim/ tighten job, I reinforced the lip of the ne hole with mahogany plywood strips. These stuck out into the cut hole about 1/2 inch to make a flange for the original cut piece (you DID save the cutout didn't you?!?) and dropped it right back into place. All gluing was done with Resorcinol Glue and clamped into place with clothes pins. The cutout was reglued and nailed into place with thin short brass nails.
Feel free to contact me for more info at:
cruisair@hotmail.com
Just to be clear, I did not make more holes in the bottom of the wing. Instead I made them in the trailing edge of the wing. The reason I did it that way was because I had to replace a broken aileron hingev bracket. You may well have easier acess from the bottom of the wing, but lining up the cut so you don't cut into a rib may be tricky. Entering from the TE eliminated that risk at least
Once I completed the shim/ tighten job, I reinforced the lip of the ne hole with mahogany plywood strips. These stuck out into the cut hole about 1/2 inch to make a flange for the original cut piece (you DID save the cutout didn't you?!?) and dropped it right back into place. All gluing was done with Resorcinol Glue and clamped into place with clothes pins. The cutout was reglued and nailed into place with thin short brass nails.
Feel free to contact me for more info at:
cruisair@hotmail.com
Jonathan Baron
New member
Peter:
As you have a 19 series airplane, hold off a sec until I can contact some folks with better knowledge of the marque. For example, I have covered holes on mine with access to those hinges. The Cruisair has pulleys governing them. 'Masters have push rods. This is why Cruisairs have lighter break-out forces in roll.
In short, I'm no mechanic, but I will be contacting a fellow, on another matter, who is.
Jonathan
As you have a 19 series airplane, hold off a sec until I can contact some folks with better knowledge of the marque. For example, I have covered holes on mine with access to those hinges. The Cruisair has pulleys governing them. 'Masters have push rods. This is why Cruisairs have lighter break-out forces in roll.
In short, I'm no mechanic, but I will be contacting a fellow, on another matter, who is.
Jonathan
Thanks for very good responses. I got on my back and inspected the problem further today with the help of an 88 year old guy who is restoring a staggerwing (this will be the second Staggerwing he has restored since turning 80-he was a United pilot when they flew DC-3's) It looks like the bolt goes through the rear spar and can be reached from an inspection cover fore of the spar. To get to the rear of the bolt, we were going to cut little holes on the bottom of the wing, but will look at going through the "back" of the wing. Going through the bottom seems reasonable because we don't have to remove the aileron and can fill the hole in with little rectangular metal covers that are flanged so the front is "inside" the wing and the back end will be screwed to the outside. Figuring out how to use the original wood is a reasonable option as well. Keep those cards and letters coming. The more advice, the more options. Peter
Jonathan Baron
New member
I heard back from my friend and he says that, normally, those hinges are not touched after the wing is built unless the aircraft has been moved from an environment with some humidity to a very arid one.
When you removed the inspection hole, Peter, and got your fingers in there, were you able to determine whether the hinges were truly loose?
Apologies, Dave. It seems that the hinge arrangement may not be all that different even though the actuating mechanism is.
Jonathan
When you removed the inspection hole, Peter, and got your fingers in there, were you able to determine whether the hinges were truly loose?
Apologies, Dave. It seems that the hinge arrangement may not be all that different even though the actuating mechanism is.
Jonathan
When I put my finger in the inspection hole I could feel the nut end of the bolt/nut , but they seemed not to be loose, but were also painted over, so any looseness would be on the bolt side (aft of the spar) which can't be checked without opening up new holes. When one lifts on the aileron one can see that the hingeassembly moves about 1/8 or 3/16 inch up and down with respect to the wing. There is a bit of looseness in the hinge but the hingemount is what I'm concerned with.
I think I posted about this a couple of years ago. I dont remember the details but grinding sockets to paper thin was in the plan. Many Cruisairs have ailerons that hang down and cause (I assume) a lot of drag. This is a stretch of the memory, but I think the holes I cut on the front side of the spar were small enough to legaly just do a fabric patch. I am a computer dinasaur, so I dont know how to retrieve my earlier posts. The outboard bracket was the most difficult since the spar narrows down and left even less room for a wrench or socket. If you have one aileron hanging down and the other one flush, you may now know why you have a big rudder trim tab. What ever you do, dont over tighten them. Just snug. Just a thought.____Grant.
blimpy
New member
Thanks Dan and Grant.
Yes, I can get a borescope I think. Makes sense to get a look at things .
I don't think aileron droop is a problem on my bird.. just noticeable vertical play when I preflight
the brackets.
Heck yes, it is hot as hades and dry as a bone right now.. with 100 degrees in the hanger with all the doors
open... so nope.. not going to tighten anymore than finger snug, or maybe the smart money waits until
humidity is closer to a mid range between wet weather and dry..before I do anything more than look.
I can see the real possibility of the wood swelling up at peak humidity and being crushed, by overtightening.
Not going there. Trying desperately not to make stupid mistakes :roll: :lol:
Grant... all the posts on any subject come up when you type the subject in the search box..as you see... they magically reappeared when I posted a follow up .. what 10 years later.
I am SO grateful for this reservoir of experience and information !!
larry
Yes, I can get a borescope I think. Makes sense to get a look at things .
I don't think aileron droop is a problem on my bird.. just noticeable vertical play when I preflight
the brackets.
Heck yes, it is hot as hades and dry as a bone right now.. with 100 degrees in the hanger with all the doors
open... so nope.. not going to tighten anymore than finger snug, or maybe the smart money waits until
humidity is closer to a mid range between wet weather and dry..before I do anything more than look.
I can see the real possibility of the wood swelling up at peak humidity and being crushed, by overtightening.
Not going there. Trying desperately not to make stupid mistakes :roll: :lol:
Grant... all the posts on any subject come up when you type the subject in the search box..as you see... they magically reappeared when I posted a follow up .. what 10 years later.
I am SO grateful for this reservoir of experience and information !!
larry
blimpy
New member
I was operating under the delusion that there was another set of bolts that runs "athwart ship" inside the wing.
Dan Cullman " lerned me there aint".
So, since I am snug up against "something" when the nuts are hand tight.. and the hinge bracket play is still excessive
I'm thinking maybe I have bottomed out on the threads.. and adding another washer on the front side of the spar,
might let me snug the thing up more. Also, I haven't tried having a second person lift the hinge to take
the weight load off the bracket while I tighten.
Clearly I don't want to crush the wood in the spars.. so, I'm being careful.
Yes.. it is routinely hitting 100 degrees and dry in my hanger most summer days, and I'm sure it has
at it's previous homes the last 10 years.
Not experiencing any turning of the bolt ( yet) that would require getting into the wing.
Living with it while waiting to implement the ideas presented here.
thanks.
Dan Cullman " lerned me there aint".
So, since I am snug up against "something" when the nuts are hand tight.. and the hinge bracket play is still excessive
I'm thinking maybe I have bottomed out on the threads.. and adding another washer on the front side of the spar,
might let me snug the thing up more. Also, I haven't tried having a second person lift the hinge to take
the weight load off the bracket while I tighten.
Clearly I don't want to crush the wood in the spars.. so, I'm being careful.
Yes.. it is routinely hitting 100 degrees and dry in my hanger most summer days, and I'm sure it has
at it's previous homes the last 10 years.
Not experiencing any turning of the bolt ( yet) that would require getting into the wing.
Living with it while waiting to implement the ideas presented here.
thanks.
Dan Cullman
New member
I had a friend find one of his support brackets broken. I forget how it was discovered, but we were "on the road" in western Colorado and I do remember it was "fun" to get it out to weld back together.
Dan
Dan