Larry Lowenkron
Member
Anyone going to this fly in? Would be fun to have a few triple tails together. Considering our numbers (or lack there of) we'd be mystery ships!
Larry
Larry
AOPA Fly-In at Spokane
- Thread starter Larry Lowenkron
- Start date
bbarrett
New member
I was thinking about going, but I'm not sure I'll have the hydraulic issues sorted out by then. Silly work keeps getting in the way of flying. Also somewhat depends on what the fires do in the next couple of weeks. I'm not really looking forward to flying through a forest fire...
blimpy
New member
I think anything that cost less than 750 thousand is a mystery ship to AOPA.
When Barry Schiff planted propaganda lifted from a Nazi comic book, and treated it like'
historical fact - my relationship with them ended. Everyweek they flood my email with more
crap about yet another new 10 million dollar biz jet.
When hebert hoover comes back into power.. they will be happy.
go try it..and report back.
:evil:
When Barry Schiff planted propaganda lifted from a Nazi comic book, and treated it like'
historical fact - my relationship with them ended. Everyweek they flood my email with more
crap about yet another new 10 million dollar biz jet.
When hebert hoover comes back into power.. they will be happy.
go try it..and report back.
:evil:
Larry Lowenkron
Member
Please Larry, don't hide your feelings or anything. Apparently you don't want to go.
SoCalPlaneDoc
New member
I dunno Larry.. you might want to reconsider your position..
The latest magazine has articles about the recent fly-in to Chino, a story about the Astore (Tecnam Sport Light), a group helping kids to get flying lessons, etc.. There is also an article about the CJ3 and a regular column for turbines.. I'd say it's a fairly balanced presentation.
AOPA is also the main force driving the elimination of the third class medical (along with the EAA). I'd bet a pile of unobtainium that more than one member of this group is planning on that so they wont have to reveal to their AME that they cant pass it.
Sure, they will broadcast about a new gazillion dollar blitzfire 500 with the latest in AI autopilot, but you gotta realize they have bizjet pilots and owners as members too. If they didn't mention them once in awhile, AOPA would get the rep with them of only catering to old grouchy curmudgeons that think the only thing flying is their orphan wood-wing taildraggers....
Remember too that, 25 years ago the tech that was only in big expensive learjets is now available to in a relatively dirt-cheap hand held that most pilots would not dream of flying without.
I took my -3 to Chino forgetting all about the flyin - a group of us make regular trips around SOCAL for breakfast runs, Chino has one of the finest destinations for that, a throwback family place called "Flo's" (also highlighted in the latest issue). When I got there, ground parked me in that area. A couple of AOPA folks walked over and introduced themselves, interested in the plane. Very nice people showing genuine interest. No sales pitch, no politics, just nice folks.
AOPA is like the NRA is to gun enthusiasts. They're an experienced and active voice in Washington helping all of aviation - no less the little guy. I don't agree with every single thing they do, but I am very thankful they are there.
The latest magazine has articles about the recent fly-in to Chino, a story about the Astore (Tecnam Sport Light), a group helping kids to get flying lessons, etc.. There is also an article about the CJ3 and a regular column for turbines.. I'd say it's a fairly balanced presentation.
AOPA is also the main force driving the elimination of the third class medical (along with the EAA). I'd bet a pile of unobtainium that more than one member of this group is planning on that so they wont have to reveal to their AME that they cant pass it.
Sure, they will broadcast about a new gazillion dollar blitzfire 500 with the latest in AI autopilot, but you gotta realize they have bizjet pilots and owners as members too. If they didn't mention them once in awhile, AOPA would get the rep with them of only catering to old grouchy curmudgeons that think the only thing flying is their orphan wood-wing taildraggers....
Remember too that, 25 years ago the tech that was only in big expensive learjets is now available to in a relatively dirt-cheap hand held that most pilots would not dream of flying without.
I took my -3 to Chino forgetting all about the flyin - a group of us make regular trips around SOCAL for breakfast runs, Chino has one of the finest destinations for that, a throwback family place called "Flo's" (also highlighted in the latest issue). When I got there, ground parked me in that area. A couple of AOPA folks walked over and introduced themselves, interested in the plane. Very nice people showing genuine interest. No sales pitch, no politics, just nice folks.
AOPA is like the NRA is to gun enthusiasts. They're an experienced and active voice in Washington helping all of aviation - no less the little guy. I don't agree with every single thing they do, but I am very thankful they are there.
Larry Lowenkron
Member
Well, I went to Spokane and it was great! I camped on Friday, and Mark Baker came to the camp site (~40 planes) and mingled with everyone. Of course I plugged our planes. Saturday went to a bunch of seminars and walked and talked. The Miss Veedol replica was there as was the Boeing Model 40. The exhibit tent was smaller than expected, but I wasn't in the market for anything special so that didn't matter much to me. As in all (or at least most) fly ins, everyone was VERY friendly and seemed to enjoy meeting each other. They even GAVE a good lunch to all AOPA members (paid by the sponsors!)
Doc, I think you pretty well summed up my feelings about AOPA. I believe that if they and EAA weren't there, we would not be able to fly like we do today. There would be many more restrictions. I'm glad they are there, and willing to support them as long as I can. When or if they p.... me off, I will tell them.
Doc, I think you pretty well summed up my feelings about AOPA. I believe that if they and EAA weren't there, we would not be able to fly like we do today. There would be many more restrictions. I'm glad they are there, and willing to support them as long as I can. When or if they p.... me off, I will tell them.
SoCalPlaneDoc
New member
Well I found out today that the happening I stumbled on at Chino wasn't the official AOPA shindig, but some AOPA people were there. Oh well, they were nice to me anyway.
fholbert
Administrator
Yea, the AOPA Chino thing hasn't happened yet. It's scheduled for September 20th.
What a disappointment that AOPA dropped the three day Aviation Summits in favor of one day events at local airports. When they were in SoCal I always took days off work to attend and thought 3 days wasn't enough. Frankly I'm up for AOPA renewal and I'm not sure there's a reason to renew.
It appears another group has taken over the AOPA Summit idea using the same format and locations that AOPA gave up.
Aviation Expo Palm Springs - Three days starting October 31st.
http://aviation-xpo.com/register.html
What a disappointment that AOPA dropped the three day Aviation Summits in favor of one day events at local airports. When they were in SoCal I always took days off work to attend and thought 3 days wasn't enough. Frankly I'm up for AOPA renewal and I'm not sure there's a reason to renew.
It appears another group has taken over the AOPA Summit idea using the same format and locations that AOPA gave up.
Aviation Expo Palm Springs - Three days starting October 31st.
http://aviation-xpo.com/register.html
lwford
New member
Boys, you might not agree with the AOPA or the EAA but there is strength in numbers. Look at Triple A, NRA and of all things the American Trial Lawyers Ass. Politicians know what keeps their ass in power and they are toast otherwise. Do you know what would happen to them if they passed a law stating anyone over 70 has to have a 3rd class medical to drive. They would be out of a job in 24hrs! So the only voice in the wilderness is AOPA and EAA and small numbers= we are doomed. I'm going down with the captain of the ship because it is the only ship we got. Lynn his 2 cents. :x
blimpy
New member
Ok. All good reasonable points. I have been an AOPA member until renewal came up last month.
maybe I will re-up. maybe.
I LOVE and have always felt very indebted to the ASF arm of AOPA. Too bad they don't do the traveling license
test seminars that they once did. That is now replaced by for profit outfits like the Kings ( don't get me started on them).
The wings seminars I have been to in the last years have been fairly uniformly mediocre things rushed through by the presenters, and in the case of the Chart Challenge.. basically crap as presented.
Certainly you are right, AOPA and EAA are the only effective voices we have RE: legislation.
There is a good reason EAA is on the rise and AOPA aint. Neither are or can be all things to all people, despite their marketing.
My problem with AOPA is political and cultural. Naturally there are even fewer left leaning pilots than there are black women pilots. So, it's a personal problem of mine.
They adopted under the last head of AOPA a strident right wing paranoid NRA kind of rhetoric that I find offensive
and slightly lulu - just as most folks find the NRA rhetoric lulu. ( I say this as a person who has had guns since I was a kid).
I don't think we need ak-47s freely distributed and I don't think people who have serious medical issues should be flying airplanes. In the middle ground of implementing common sense almost everybody can be happy.. non flyer's included.
My other problem with AOPA is that it is a very closely held private company - like AAA insurance - with a lot of puffery
making it seem like a "member organization". You join and you are automatically voting for a fixed slate of proxies .
However, there is nobody else providing the kind of info on FAA approved and non-approved RX medication, or with such a fine set of on line Tutorials . I used these heavily getting licensed after not flying for 35+ years... and I constantly recommend AOPA resources to other pilots.. use of which generally means joining.
So, sure. I appreciate them. Kinda.
Also, it was clear to me 5 years ago that by not attacking the 1320 lb weight limit for LSA's... AOPA had completely abandoned the FBO's, Flight Schools, Mechanics, and Owners of Cessna 150's and 152's which are a fleet of 15,000+ aircraft -
now going to hell - that have been rendered nearly worthless and unsellable when a 1650 or 1670 lb limit would have that fleet flying like mad, and mechanics employed working on them.
$100,000 LSA are and were a lead brick.. $15,000 LSA's are not, especially when they are as familiar and well supported with spare parts as the Cessna 150 .
This is the Giant Elephant in the Room... which that bunch of Beltway Suits at AOPA couldn't see if it bit them, crushed them, and gave birth on the front lawn. ( see larry I got in touch with my feelings..)
Maybe they have been working on this - sideways- but this one small change could have done a LOT to stem the obvious collapse of GA including entry into training and ownership.. and could have been done by now.
:mrgreen:
maybe I will re-up. maybe.
I LOVE and have always felt very indebted to the ASF arm of AOPA. Too bad they don't do the traveling license
test seminars that they once did. That is now replaced by for profit outfits like the Kings ( don't get me started on them).
The wings seminars I have been to in the last years have been fairly uniformly mediocre things rushed through by the presenters, and in the case of the Chart Challenge.. basically crap as presented.
Certainly you are right, AOPA and EAA are the only effective voices we have RE: legislation.
There is a good reason EAA is on the rise and AOPA aint. Neither are or can be all things to all people, despite their marketing.
My problem with AOPA is political and cultural. Naturally there are even fewer left leaning pilots than there are black women pilots. So, it's a personal problem of mine.
They adopted under the last head of AOPA a strident right wing paranoid NRA kind of rhetoric that I find offensive
and slightly lulu - just as most folks find the NRA rhetoric lulu. ( I say this as a person who has had guns since I was a kid).
I don't think we need ak-47s freely distributed and I don't think people who have serious medical issues should be flying airplanes. In the middle ground of implementing common sense almost everybody can be happy.. non flyer's included.
My other problem with AOPA is that it is a very closely held private company - like AAA insurance - with a lot of puffery
making it seem like a "member organization". You join and you are automatically voting for a fixed slate of proxies .
However, there is nobody else providing the kind of info on FAA approved and non-approved RX medication, or with such a fine set of on line Tutorials . I used these heavily getting licensed after not flying for 35+ years... and I constantly recommend AOPA resources to other pilots.. use of which generally means joining.
So, sure. I appreciate them. Kinda.
Also, it was clear to me 5 years ago that by not attacking the 1320 lb weight limit for LSA's... AOPA had completely abandoned the FBO's, Flight Schools, Mechanics, and Owners of Cessna 150's and 152's which are a fleet of 15,000+ aircraft -
now going to hell - that have been rendered nearly worthless and unsellable when a 1650 or 1670 lb limit would have that fleet flying like mad, and mechanics employed working on them.
$100,000 LSA are and were a lead brick.. $15,000 LSA's are not, especially when they are as familiar and well supported with spare parts as the Cessna 150 .
This is the Giant Elephant in the Room... which that bunch of Beltway Suits at AOPA couldn't see if it bit them, crushed them, and gave birth on the front lawn. ( see larry I got in touch with my feelings..)
Maybe they have been working on this - sideways- but this one small change could have done a LOT to stem the obvious collapse of GA including entry into training and ownership.. and could have been done by now.
:mrgreen:
Larry Lowenkron
Member
ASF still has numerous FREE courses on line. Couple these with the free courses available thru the Wings program, and you can maintain pretty decent KNOWLEDGE currency/training. Add a few hrs of dual, and that adds to your proficiency. It also can serve as a BFR.
I don't want to get into a comparison of EAA vs AOPA other than to note that I am not aware of proficiency/safety training provided by EAA. Tell me if I am missing it. Regardless, I've been a member of both for more years thanI can remember. They both serve us admirably, and am glad they are BOTH THERE! There are few organizations that I aware of that do not periodically go thru organizational troubles. Both AOPA and EAA recently demonstrated that. I like where AOPA is going, and the regional fly ins make it more likely that planes like ours can attend, without having to fly 1000+ miles. (I'm getting too old for that!)
Regarding LSA's...The mere fact that LSA's have been approved whether 1320 or ? Is actually pretty miraculous considering how FAA works. I also believe that either the LSA wt. limit may be increased with time and/or hopefully, their will also be med cert. reform ...maybe not as now proposed, but some improvement. I do wonder who would pay for an LSA when they could buy a used Viking for $40-$60k but the market will work that out. I am confident that both organizations will work to improve how we fly. Yes, it is necessary for their own existence, but we will profit from it.
Lastly, Blimpy, I believe that owning/flying a Cruisair would just be an uncompleted item on your bucket list without the existence of AOPA.
I don't want to get into a comparison of EAA vs AOPA other than to note that I am not aware of proficiency/safety training provided by EAA. Tell me if I am missing it. Regardless, I've been a member of both for more years thanI can remember. They both serve us admirably, and am glad they are BOTH THERE! There are few organizations that I aware of that do not periodically go thru organizational troubles. Both AOPA and EAA recently demonstrated that. I like where AOPA is going, and the regional fly ins make it more likely that planes like ours can attend, without having to fly 1000+ miles. (I'm getting too old for that!)
Regarding LSA's...The mere fact that LSA's have been approved whether 1320 or ? Is actually pretty miraculous considering how FAA works. I also believe that either the LSA wt. limit may be increased with time and/or hopefully, their will also be med cert. reform ...maybe not as now proposed, but some improvement. I do wonder who would pay for an LSA when they could buy a used Viking for $40-$60k but the market will work that out. I am confident that both organizations will work to improve how we fly. Yes, it is necessary for their own existence, but we will profit from it.
Lastly, Blimpy, I believe that owning/flying a Cruisair would just be an uncompleted item on your bucket list without the existence of AOPA.
blimpy
New member
Ok. Looking on the sunny side:
1.I'm Glad you had a good time in Washington, and that this may bode well for the little guys.
2. I belonged to both for the reasons you state until last month.
3. Yeah, we'd be in deep kim chee without both.
4. EAA is abysmal with regard to safety, and their attitudes toward regulations - but that is so American it's endemic.
5. I have depended on AOPA's online courses.
I participate in Wings, and go to all the local AOPA seminars.
I still like the field guys I've met from the FAA .
Nobody likes bureaucrats.. not even other bureaucrats.
I'm done now.
1.I'm Glad you had a good time in Washington, and that this may bode well for the little guys.
2. I belonged to both for the reasons you state until last month.
3. Yeah, we'd be in deep kim chee without both.
4. EAA is abysmal with regard to safety, and their attitudes toward regulations - but that is so American it's endemic.
5. I have depended on AOPA's online courses.
I participate in Wings, and go to all the local AOPA seminars.
I still like the field guys I've met from the FAA .
Nobody likes bureaucrats.. not even other bureaucrats.
I'm done now.
