Approach speeds in Citabria

S

swixtt

New member
hey guys,

so i've had my Citabria 7eca for about 3months now. got about 30hrs. in it and am just having a great time.
there are days when my landings are not as stellar as i want them to be. i took a friend up for a cruise and had bouncy landings when we went into a couple of strips. everything is straight but i can't get the flare nailed or i'm coming in a bit too fast and not bleeding the speed off enough before touch-down. i haven't had huge problems with this when i'm on my own and get her to settle in nicely, cross-winds as well. i found that trip with my friend i felt like i didn't have enough elevator.
so, got me thinking my whole approach here. what do you guys do? powered approaches? power to idle and steeper approaches, adding a bit of power just before touch-down?

thx
 
A lot depends on the OAT and weight of the plane. I keep mine on half tanks most of the time and cross the fence at 65-70. If the decent is to fast just add a little power to break ground effect. Wheel land if at all possible, it's better on the plane. If you get a tail wheel shimmy just take some psi off the the wheel by keeping the tail off the ground as long a possible. If your wheel landing are a bit rusty, the best thing to do is practice, it will make landings much better.

Jeff N53872
 
Wow, thats all i can say, first 65-70 is way to fast for final, your plane should have a stall around 45 mph, and have a take off and landing capabilty of under 450 feet. Get a old guy, that knows how to teach slow and low tailwheel until you get to know the feel of your plane, and then fly 2 feet off the run way hanging on the prop right at stall speed, and you will be suprised. I've flown with 3 pilots over 75 years young and they were great instructors. Sorry to say, but most younger instructors, don't know how to teach rudder control. I had to learn how to fly again when I switched to my 7ec from training wheels. 2nd To help you out, do patterns with no aerilons(all rudder), and then fly them with no rudder control(aerilons), then do then with with no elavator control, using power. Thats the only way your going to know how to control your plane. 3rd, with 30 hours and you should just keep putting gas in it, then more gas, then 1000 more gallons of gas. Fly alone, then with gear in the back until you get it figured out, light and heavy, then add a passanger, dont be in hurry. Another thing and very important, trust me is practice and practice emergency landing and losing power at all levels of take off. When my prop stopped turning, training and practice paid off. Fly your plane at least 150 hours a year and you will have alot better skills and believe it or not, normally less maintenance. Citabria's are a great plane, learn to fly yours, low, slow, high, and upside down.

Terry


Terry
 
Cross the fence at 65-70, land at 50 after you bleed off a little airspeed. Full stall landings are great if that what you want to do. Wheel landings are best on the equipment. Just my thoughts.
 
thanks guys.. all good to read.

i was out on the weekend and just stayed in the circuit to work on them. did a bunch of wheel landings at all different approach speeds. some with power and some with a very small amount. to me it just seems normal with just me in it... i'll throw a backpack with a bunch of gear in it and do some more practice.
yeah i am a firm believer too in keeping up with the skills... hope to do about 100hrs. this season!

any other comments? it's good to hear what others do or recommend!
 
I own a 1979 7ECA that I've put about 350 hours on. I'm no expert, but I have learned a few things during that time. It's a great tailwheel plane to build experience in. As far as landing speeds go, the POH lists a stall speed of 51mph. With just me (145lbs) and 1/4-1/2 fuel I can get an indicated stall speed of 47mph. Full fuel, passenger and gear raises that quite a bit. My advice would be an approach speed in the 65mph region. As long as you're not landing on very small airfields this will be a safe approach speed. I always do wheel landings and prefer them over full stall landings. That's just my opinion though, fly what you're comfortable with. Landing over obstacles adds even more technique for the 7ECA. With no flaps you need to plan on a sideslip, or a slow enough approach that you can bring the power back and descend without building too much airspeed. The strip I keep my plane at is 1500' with trees on both ends and a hill just off the typical approach. I practice 50-50 sideslips and straight approachs depending on my load and the wind. When the plane is light it slips fairly well, but when I'm heavy or the wind is gusty I prefer to just keep it slow till I'm over the strip and cut the power back. The 7ECA will settle fairly well if you're slow enough without building excessive speed. As you've probably noticed though they like to keep on dropping even with significant back elevator. A shot of power will break the decent. This is mentioned in the POH as well, and I've watched several other Citabrias make some embarrassing landings because they didn't add power to help flair.

Those are some of the things I've learned. I love my plane, and even though it won't break any records for short takeoffs or landings, it's a blast to fly and just all around fun. Keep it safe, think ahead of the plane at all times and you'll do just fine.

Cody
 
Well still no Citabria here ( my last purchase was destroyed the day before delivery ) but I have 600 hours in my Cessna 140. I agree that wheel landings are best on the aircraft. Each plane is different to some extent. Take the plane up as you would normally load it and do some stalls and note the speed your aircraft stalls indicated. I use 1.3 times stall over the fence on final. For me that works out to 58 to 60 mph. Stall is 45 and with full fuel and a passenger she stalls at 49 so I come over the fence just under 65 or about 5 to 7 mph hotter than by myself and half tanks. For wheel landings I come in over the fence at 65 with some nose down trim and hold it off and " step " it down with a little forward pressure to pin the gear down and no bounce. Most of all just practice. I can go out and shoot 20 or 30 landings in a day and even owning the plane for 12 years it never gets old.
 
Another thing, someone mentioned that if you get a tailwheel shimmy apply forward stick pressure. If you get a shimmy, get your tail spring or wheel fixed! Best thing for your plane is gas, gas, and more gas.
 
FYI-

These planes were designed for three point landings, when conventional gear aircraft were common wheel landings were infrequent. A properly executed three point landing will result in touchdown at the lowest speed, with the least energy, and yield the shortest landing roll, and will dramatically reduced the risk of PIO induced prop strikes. If you are avoiding three point landings due to tailwheel shimmy that problem should be resolved through tailwheel overhaul, replacement of leaf springs, and/or replacement of steering springs.............................avoiding three point landings to eliminate shimmy is ignoring an airworthiness issue.

The suggestion that wheel landings are less stressful on the plane flies in the face of logic.................since a three point landing is at minimum speed and minimum energy the opposite is true...................anyone who argues the opposite needs to get some dual and learn to make proper three point landings.

I began my career instructing at a grass strip with seven 7AC's and a Cub, we never taught wheel landings (this was long befor coventional gear sign offs were required) and we never had a prop strike or ground loop.........................calm wind, cross wind, gusty wind, and on skis....................I think we were doing something right.......

Find an experienced conventional gear CFI, the initial poster said he was having landing problems but we have no idea what said problems are, therefore it's difficult to provide meaningful advice. However most convential gear three point landing problems are from allowing the plane to touch on the back of the mains and then when the tail drops the increase in AOA converts the extra speed into lift and an aerodynamic bounce.............................or allowing the tail to flop up and down as the plane rolls down the runway because the stick was not full aft on touchdown and the elevator is flopping up and down.

You should be able to fly a Citabria by pitch/power and feel with no need to reference the airspeed...........................the only time I reference my airspeed is doing low level aerobatics (I have a 500' waiver in a 7GCAA) to confirm proper entry speed because energy management becomes rather important inverted at 500'....................................

Tom-
 
I have a 7GCAA - when ever I get a shimmy, it's because I came in too fast and forced a three point. I hardly ever wheel land, on speed down the chute, the attiude is set up perfectly for a three point.
 
Ok...........Take what you want, leave what you don't. I think Terry 'should hunt' has some good ideas. I have some 23, 000 hours in airplanes alot of which are in transport category airplanes which don't amount to a hill of beans as far this conversation I think as a current CFI that wheel landings are good to teach but worthless in the long run.......eventually the taii has to come down.,somemtime prefeerably ysoomer than latern ,
 
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