Decathlon CS 150HP vs Super Decathlon 180HP

T

towpilot

New member
Hey all,

I am thinking of buying a Decathlon and was wondering If the Super Decathlon 180HP is considerably better than the Decathlon CS with 150 HP in terms of climb performance and aerobatics. My primary purpose for the Decathlon will be for aerobatics and an occasional cross country out of an airport based at 3000' MSL. There seems to be a wide price gap between the 70's model Decathlons and the 90 and later model Super Decathlons. Here are some questions I have been wondering about:

1. It seems the climb performance difference is about 250 FPM from manuals I can find online. Have you found this to be true and Is it a major win for the Super Decathlon?

2. How does the 150HP do in aerobatics compared to the 180HP?

3.Does the extra horsepower matter much on cross countries. I ran some numbers and for the same trips, it seems the 150 HP Decathlon burns just as much fuel and takes about 7% longer to make a trip. For the price, I don't mind being that little bit slower.

4. Are there any major things to know about when thinking of buying one model vs the other? AD's, Expensive issues, etc?

5. Is parts availability just as good on the Decathlon as compared to the ACA Super Decathlon?

6. What should I be asking that I can't think of as I write this?

Here are some items I know.

Decathlon CS
1. Most have wood wings and I have read the arguments for and against this. Wood wings do seem to make it more costly to add the aluminium landing gear from ACA in order to get the 1950 MTOW increase since that requires metal wings.
2. Most don't seem to have spades that I have seen.
3. With age comes the potential for higher maintenance costs.
4. It seems these run between $40,000 and $60,000 dollars.

Super Decathlon
1. Metal wings are standard on those that are from the 90's and newer. This means the landing gear upgrade is less costly if an owner wants the 1950# MTOW increase.
2. In 2003 it seems they made the aluminium landing gear standard.
3. It seems these run between $100,000 and up.

Any advice on this topic or about buying a Decathlon in general would be greatly appreciate. Also, I searched on this topic in the forums and did not see it, so I apologize in advance if I missed it somehow. Thanks a lot!
 
I have been flying my 150HP fixed pitch 8KCAB for 16 years and have little experience in the Super Decathlon, so I don't have much performance comparison, except the 180 T.O. performance is very noticeably better, I would think at a 3000' airport the 180 would be what I would want.
I can comment on AD notes:
The 150 and 180 have basically the same AD notes.
The ones that can be costly are:
AD90-15-15R1 and AD 96-18-02 dealing with the front strut to spar attach fitting. They should have been taken care of years ago, but even if they were there is a factory SB to replace them each 1000hrs.
AD 00-25-02R1 Wood spar AD. We don't need another wood vs metal spar debate, but, keep in mind the yearly wood inspection done correctly is time consuming, Metal spars give some peace of mind. There is nothing per say wrong with wood spars, but there is no advantage.
If a crack is fould during inspection your in for a major expense.
There is also a SB to replace the gear attach bolts each 500Hrs. You can read all the SBs on the ACA website by the way.
Other things, 1978 and latter have the newer style insturment pannel, a vast improement.
All 1990 and latter are ACA and have: metal spars, a different fuel shutoff, ( old one not available), the newer insttument panel, and they have Polyurethane paint.
I see more with spades, a nessesity in my opinion.

Hope some of this is helpfull.
Bill B
 
Hi wbecker,

Thank you very much for your posting. That is great information you provided. I need to go through all the AD's once I have an idea which direction to go, but the ones you pointed out are certainly ones I will keep in my notes. It is good to hear that the takeoff performance of the 180HP Decathlon is noticeable. Performance charts say what to expect, but knowing how it feels in the real world can be hard to understand unless you actually talking to people who know.

Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to share what you know.
 
I forgot to mention another important AD note. Hartzell prop AD note 2006-18-15 superseded by AD 209-22-03. Applies to 180HP engine, but not the 150HP. Requires repetitive inspection of the front half of the hub every 100 hours or replace the hub with a SN suffix "B" hub. Have your mechanic read the log and AD carefully.
Great airplanes, have fun!
Bill b
 
Decathlon CS
1. Most have wood wings and I have read the arguments for and against this. Wood wings do seem to make it more costly to add the aluminium landing gear from ACA in order to get the 1950 MTOW increase since that requires metal wings.
Click to expand...
You must have the metal wings plus the 180 hp engine to get the MTOW increase per http://www.americanchampionaircraft.com/assets/sl423.pdf
 
Hi djpaccro,

Thanks for letting me know. I did not realize the 180HP was also needed, which is important to know. The 1950 MTOW would be really nice, so that may be the kicker that swings me towards the 180HP Super Decathlon. I really appreciate you pointing that out.
 
I owned an '99 180 HP Super Decathlon and a friend owned a 150 HP FP Decathlon. His was one of two 150 HP Decathlon’s produced by ACA. We were based on the same grass strip in hot humid South Louisiana. Take off ground run, climb & cruise.... there was a big difference in airplanes. More than just numbers in a book. You could see and feel the difference. Some of difference was in prop but I believe the 30 extra HP made a lot of the difference. I flew my friends airplane enough to be familiar with the 150 HP version.

As to aerobatic capability it depends on what you want to do. The 150 HP is fine for basic loops, rolls and hammers but you will need to learn how to manage your energy (air speed and or altitude) between figures. Add a second person in the airplane and it just get more difficult and takes much longer. Naturally the 180 HP starts out with more available energy which makes flying consecutive figures easier. Also I could do a nice 1/2 roll on a vertical line up with the 180, was not possible with the 150.

If you want to try your hand at International Aerobatic Club competition aerobatics, the180 HP Super D is very competitive at the Sportsman level. I highly encourage anyone interested in aerobatics to find the closest IAC chapter. You will meet some great people and have fun improving your flying skills. Most importantly they will teach you how to fly acro safely. They will keep you from making novice mistakes. Even if you don't want to fly competitively, it is still a good thing to do.

The 180 HP metal wing also comes with a 200 mph Vne. Nice to have flying acro. You can use the extra airspeed for energy.

Maintenance wise there is not a significant difference and the previous posts covered most of the items.

If your budget will allow, I would find a American Champion Aircraft produced Super Decathlon. Taken care of, the newer paints and fabric will last longer than you will own the airplane. Less corrosion worry issues. Probably will come with more up to date avionics , than a $60K airplane.

Mine had a 635# use full load. I could legally load two adults, baggage, full fuel and cruise for 3+ hours at 120 knots and had a capable aerobatic airplane. That is a combination that you will not often find. They are great all around airplanes.

Easy for me to spend someone else’s money.

You can also but a tow hook on one and pull gliders if you are so inclined.

Bill
 
Hi Bill,

Thank you for your insight on this topic and for describing your experience between the 150 HP and the 180 HP Decathlons. I appreciate your insight and discussing competing in the Sportsman's category. Good points on energy management between the two. There is a lot of good information to take in! You input on this topic is appreciated.
 
Hi guys, may be a dome question, but could you swap a 360 engine on a 320 Decathlon? Has been done? Do you need an STC?
Thanks
 
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