Do You Practice Spins?

Do you do spins?

  • I teach Spins

    Votes: 48 27.6%

  • I Practice Spins

    Votes: 111 63.8%

  • I do NOT - Don't believe in Spin Training

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I do NOT - Other reasons

    Votes: 15 8.6%
  • Total voters
    174
Robert Szego

Robert Szego

New member
Since our Citabrias and Decathlons are aerobatic, there isn't a safety reason NOT to practive them... or are there?

If you are an instructor, do you teach Spins? How many turns? What is your minimum start altitude? What is your Floor?

Any other Comments?
 
I am surprised there has not been more discussion also. One Rednecks Opinion....Spins should be taught and practiced. I learned to fly when I was 21 and probably did not need to learn anything advanced until I matured a little. Learned spins a few years later from a friend. If I had been spinning at a young age I might have been in over my head. However, in the 20 something years since, have had a ball with light acro and spins. Learned the primary control for yaw maneuvers is the Rudder! David Johnson
 
I teach spins and basic acro in a 7GCAA. All students benefit from the course no matter what their skill level is when they start. Excellent tool for energy management and rudder techniques. My “floorâ€
 
i teach spins at every oportunity. stall spin recognition,prevention is like teaching soft field technics on pavement. i have different hard decks,depending on the airplane and the student,but NEVER less then 1500 AGL. :wink:
 
spins should be taught and practiced. In Canada, spin training is part of both the Private and Commercial licence standard. I personally think it is invaluable to learn spin entery and recovery.
 
I teach spins,and I give spin training to prospective CFI's. I start off with slow flight and stalls, then intro to spins with about 1 turn, and progress from there to what the student wants (up to about 7 turns). I use a minimum of 4000 feet AGL to start the spins, and try to recover with at least 2000 feet AGL. My philosophy is that I enjoy flying too much to make it miserable for someone intentionally. If they ask to stop I stop.
If doing a lot of repetitive stalls I try and do a 2 turn precision stall. start and stop on the same section line..
With the Citabria there is never a "Bad Attitude"
 
I will have 100hrs in my Citabria log come Spring, at which point I'm going to begin training for the "limited" category of aerobatics permitted in my 7GCBC/HC. This will include spins.
I'm lucky in that there's an extremely good aerobatics instructor at Santa Fe.
Until then, it's landings, landings, landings, landings, and more landings. And, flying, of course. She's just so so sweet !

Jim Robins
N87VF, 7GCBC/HC
 
I was taught spins from CFI friend giving me a BFR. He demonstrates them as "The huntin' cabin stall" It starts as a turn around a point of interest. As you concentrate on that point you naturally begin to slow down. The wing starts to drop so you apply top rudder to pick it back up. Then Whammo you go over the top into a spin. It's very startling and takes a bit to figure out what happened and recover. Of course it's done at a safe altitude but sure makes you think what would happen at the low altitudes we usually use for sightseeing. After that I practiced spins untill I was comfortable with them.
 
I do not have any model of Citabria . Mostly, I'm into the lowing Bellancas which can't legally be spun. However, I have a Cessna 120 which spins marvelously. As a CFI, I believe most should have an introduction to spins, if nothing else. Some airplanes will 'snap over top,' others won't. I've tried it many times in the 120 and it won't. The O-1, Birddog I flew in the Army would do it every time.
 
I require all my students not only have spin training but be spin profficeint before they take the checkride. They must demonstrate at least 3 turns and be able to spin to a heading. It is also a great way to releive the anticipation of stalls. The stall spin from a slip or skid in a citabria is kinda hard to do, you really gotta snap it in to show the true effect, usually you just end up in crosscontrolled stall.
 
I had an 11-AC Chief for many years and did not spin it on the insistance of a very respected old-timer that had owned it at one time (something about small tails, wide bodies, and a bad experience). I did tons of slow flight and every kind of stall imaginable and it never TRIED to spin uncontrollably. I did experience limited spins in other aircraft. I now have a 7-ECA and am in the process of getting a good light-arco/spin checkout and anticipate that I will regulary practice spins. Both approaches have been based on respected input from others with much more experience in the specific aircraft. All-in-all, I belive that everyone should be well exposed to spins, but not feel compelled to practice them in all aircraft, even if approved.
 
I do spins---three to four turns in both directions as well as cuban eights, loops, rolling loops, hammerheads, some snap rolls (low speed entry), barrel rolls, sustained inverted (7KCAB).
 
Robert Szego said:
Since our Citabrias and Decathlons are aerobatic, there isn't a safety reason NOT to practive them... or are there?

If you are an instructor, do you teach Spins? How many turns? What is your minimum start altitude? What is your Floor?

Any other Comments?
Click to expand...
I am not yet an instructor. Now that I am retired from high school teaching, I may become one. However, I practice spins as part of the sportsman's sequence. In my 7KCAB, I lose about 500 ft in a 1 1/4 turn spin. In competition, that would be at a maximum of 3500 agl, but could be lower. The floor of the aerobatic box is 1500 agl. In Citabrias and decathlons, the spin isn't fully developed until about the 3rd turn. It can take longer to get out of this, so anyone learning muiltiple turn spins should have plenty of altitude.
Spins are technically normal training maneuvers; they used to be a normal part of private pilot training, with good reason. Spin awareness has saved many a life and the lack of such awareness can be fatal, yet I have flown with experienced pilots who do not recognize the stall buffet, do not realize that the stall is related to angle of attack and can occur at any airspeed and any direction, including straight down, and do not understand the dynamics of spins. If they should inadvertantly get into one, will they know what to do? If they do know what to do, will they be too terrified to do it? Stall/spin training prepares them for that eventuality, just like any other emergency training.
The dangers involved in spin practice would be similar to other training manuevers. You must have enough altitude and be situationally aware. I would start at 3500 or higher and be especially aware of other aircraft at lower altitudes. In multiple use training areas, the average pilot does not expect to see an aircraft spinning down toward him. Broadcast your intentions, and give other pilots plenty of berth. I live in a congested area and have been flying Citabrias and doing spins in them since 1970. That's almost 40 years, and I know of only one collision involving a spin. Of course, It is always a good idea for a person to get training before they go it alone, preferably in their aircraft.
 
I presently own a 8KCAB. Twenty or so years ago I owned a 7ECA and then a 7GCAA. While I owned the 7 series aircraft I practiced spins on a daily basis along with other intermediate category acro. They felt comfortable and quite normal. I regularly practiced at 4000 ft AGL and did 2 turn spins loosing a little over 1000 ft. Once I went to 10,000 ft an did 5 or so turns. Should spins be taught and practiced? I believe they should. Aside from spin recognition and avoidance, I believe there is tremendous benefit in being able to say "I have been here before" in the event of entering a spin inadvertently. The spin attitude can be disconcerting if not dabilitating for some. I say this from experience. After selling the 7GCAA I purchased a Maule, M4. This aircraft in not approved for spins and therefore I went 10 or more years without practicing what was once a familiar and comfortable feeling. Reciently I sold the Maule and purchased a 8KCAB. It was time to visit my old friend, the spin. The friendly manuver needed to be retamed. It felt strange and took a little time to reconnect. Now we are friends again.

Ken
 
I do primary instruction in Champs and Citabrias regularly. For students I make sure they experience a wing dropping off and demonstrate/understand proper recovery technique to stop a spin. If this is well understood I agree with the FAA there is no need to go further. If any student/pilot wants more I see no negatives and only positives from the experience.

I usually train these manuevers for safety purposes. According to the PTS for Private pilot the minumum altitude to enter a power off/on stall is such that allows recovery at 1500 AGL. For a student who might do an uncordinated stall and have a wing drop off, I practice entry at about 2000 AGL. The student is well briefed on what to expect, what the recovery technique should be, and what improper techniques are likely and natural to the untrained and why. I perfer to be as low as safety permits because there is a natural tendency to not to relax backpressure when closer to the ground. That is where most stall spin accidents occur. That is where I want proper recovery technique to be most natural.

I never cease to be amazed at pilots at all experience levels that fear and or are apprehensive about doing stalls/spins at a safe altitude. I am even more amazed at the number of experienced pilots that use improper recovery techniques for this perfectly safe maneuver (which might lead to their apprehension). Good thread on some basic stick and rudder skills from someone who usually hangs out on the low wing forums!
 
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