Early Citabria Brake Questions

bookmaker

bookmaker

New member
I have another question for you Citabria experts. I have a 1965 7ECA w/ Continental O-200.

The plane has what appears to be a drum type brake. One entry in the maintenance records refers to Goodrich brakes.

I cannot find any drawings, parts lists or instructions to this type brake system.

Can someone point me in the correct direction?

Dale
 
For any of you who might be remotely interested, I have new information on the brake issue for my Citabria.

I contacted ACA and their tech said that model should have Cleveland disc brakes, which is the type listed in the parts manual that I have.

After several hours reviewing the logs and notebook of papers and repair orders I received with the plane, I finally found some definitive information. I found a very faded equipment list/ weight balance form from 1965. Although all of the printed information was completely faded away, the typed and hand written information was still very legible.
It confirmed that it was for my plane, and also had a notation for brakes, wheels and tires. It also noted that it came with 7.00x 6 tires. In addition to noting what I assumed was the weight and arm, there was another number that I did not know what it was. I got out my old copy of a pilots manual that covers early Citabrias (but not as early as mine). What I found was a sample equipment list/ weight balance form printed in the manual that had the column titles. The number I was trying to figure out was a reference to the type certificate line item. I looked up item 201(f) and discovered that item is for Goodrich wheel and brake installation for " Wide trake main gear (Champion dwg. 7-1176)... Models 7FC and 7HC". Well, there was at least one 7ECA that left the factory with them - mine.

No wonder my particular plane looks so squatty. Not only are the current tires way too small, but it has the lower wide track gear.

Never a dull moment.

Dale
 
Very interesting. I like the 7.00x6 tires I run on my 1970 much better than the 6.00x6. Any pictures? I'd imagine 'upgrading' to the later style Clevelands would be possible with some research. Parts are impossible to find for a lot of the Goodrich stuff, although I think aircraft spruce still has some parts for the 6 inch wheel. 5 and 4 inch were no goes.
 
I just bought new 6.00x6 tires and tubes, but haven’t installed them yet. I may can trade up if I want to. However, even the 6.00’s are significantly taller then what is currently on the plane. See photo.

As for the brakes, I haven’t found parts yet, but I ordered the Champion installation drawing yesterday. That will have the part numbers I need to look for. They work fine, but are noisy when taxiing. Clack, clack, clack all the way down the taxiway.

I have placed adds for used Cleveland setups, but so far no luck. Cleveland told me that Wag Aero now holds the STC for conversion kits. I called, but the lady could not find the part number. However, the kits are listed on their old Aeronca parts list at about $2,800. Likely a special order. OUCH!!!.

I guess if I can’t find used sets, the Goodrich’s stay on (if I can find parts).

Dale
 
Dale:

There is an extensive series of articles on the Goodyear brakes (how to get parts, repairs, etc.) in Aeronca Aviator. I will get you the issue numbers later today; call me after 2 pm 518-731-6800.
 
Sorry; jumped first, then looked ;-)
Your Citabria is a Champion (not Bellanca) product. I found this in our Citabria Parts Manual Appendix.

Other illustrations imply that the Main Gear and Oleo #4-1169 was only for the O-200 equipped 7ECA. I assume that the Goodrich Brake went with it.
 
Robert,

Thanks for the drawing. I think I have that one but I'm not sure.

Mine seems to be a strange bird in that there is no mention in the parts manual for 1964 to 69 or so of Goodrich brakes. It shows the oleo gear and spring gear, but only Cleveland brakes. Even Dale at the tech line at ACA had never heard of a Citabria having Goodrich brakes. Also the type certificate does not list the 7ECA as one of the series having option 201(f) (the Goodrich brakes w/ wide track gear). My serial number is 143 and even the owner of serial number 123 says his has Cleveland brakes. Otherwise our planes seem basically the same.

Interesting, isn't it.

Edit: looking closer at the photo, I do have that drawing, but never noticed the Goodrich option. Hmmmm!

Dale
 
From Goodrich (http://utcaerospacesystems.com/cap/systems/Pages/wheels-brakes-business.aspx):

Dear Robert,

The part number referenced below does not belong to UTC Aerospace Wheel and Brake. We do not support 1965 Champion Citabria 7ECA.
Unfortunately do not have any information to help you with your search.

Best regards,

UTC AEROSPACE SYSTEMS- Wheels and Brakes AWB.Sales@goodrich.com
101 Waco Street, Troy, OH 45373 U.S.A.
 
Thanks for trying to help Robert. Being an older, rather odd set up, I may have problems finding parts. Probably the reason that Goodrich does not show reference to the Citabria is that even in the type certificate, that setup is not listed for any Citabria model, just Aeroncas.

I have the specific installation drawing referenced in the type certificate for the Goodrich brakes coming from ACA. Hopefully, it will have part numbers that I can use to find parts when they become needed.

At least the brakes currently work. Now I need to get an annual completed so I can fly again. It's been out of annual since February :?

Dale
 
I learn something every day. Yes, my plane has Goodrich brakes. However, they are disc, not drum. The disc is housed in a large "drum" that allows the disc to float in and out, and rattle. There are clips that keep them from popping out of the "drums".

I guess when I get the drawing from ACA, that will all be in the details.

On other subjects,
My friend (who is a freshly minted A & P) and I completed the installation of the upper side spar inspection windows. We glued the ply plates back to the spar. We also did a thorough inspection of the spar and it appears in good order. Still need to finish painting the inspection covers and surrounding area.

As soon as I get the exhaust pipes back from Wag Aero, I can get the annual done and hopefully be back in the air.

Dale
 
I got my drawing from ACA for the brakes and landing gear. Now I have part numbers, etc. YEAH!

On another note, the fun never ends. I sent my exhaust pipes out for repair and when reinstalling them, I discovered that one stud hole in one of the cylinders is stripped. Just great.

I hope I can take care of it with an oversized stud. Otherwise, I have to get a Helicoil installed.

Dale
 
Off the original subject again, but maybe some useful info for others.

In regards to the stripped exhaust stud, I was able to install a .007 oversized stud and achieve the required 210 in lb torque. So for now that problem is solved.

Back to the brakes. The more I look at the Goodrich brake set up, the more I don't like them. To replace a tire will take a significant operation requiring 6-8 retainers be removed. Each safety wired between 2 screws. This is in addition to the axle nuts. :cry:

Dale
 
I got lucky last week and found a complete set of Cleveland wheels and brakes with the proper part numbers to match the type certificate. I got them at a relative steal and they are very nice looking.

I'll likely get my A&P friend to help change them out late spring.

Dale
 
Good show! Make sure you have the right master cylinders on the top side too. Don't want a mismatch if they were different for some reason.
 
That has yet to be determined. I have found only one listing for master cylinders for that model Citabria, but based on what I have found so far, it's just no telling what was used. :shock:
 
Some early 7ECAs came with Gerdes A-110-10 Master Cylinders which used a separate hydraulic valve type parking brake. Others used Clevelend Master Clylinders that have a lever on the side of the master cylinder that the parking brake cable attaches to. I will be glad to pull the part numbers if someone needs them. I bet both of them are 9/16" bore.
 
The next time I pull the floor boards, I'll check out the master cylinders. I am hoping they will be compatible when I decide to change out the wheels and brakes.

Since the Goodrich system is currently working and in decent shape, I am not in a rush.

I just jumped on the Cleveland set I found since it was a good price for the wheels and brakes in good shape. However, sooner or later the BF Goodrich brakes will have to go.

Dale
 
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