Hello Everyone.

SoCalPlaneDoc

SoCalPlaneDoc

New member
I've been lurking for a few months reading old posts collecting information but thought I'd come out of the shadows and say hello.
I bought a '59 -3 a few weeks ago and am here in Dallas making it ready for the cross country home to San Diego. Engine has 6 hours since overhaul - looks and runs great although it's indicating a little higher oil temp than I'd like to see - might be the 100+ air temps Texas has been having - maybe the gauge, dunno yet. Oil Pressure is great, cyl head temps are fairly low... Running straight mineral oil for now - it's used less than a quart in the first 6 hours and some of that is from drips on the floor from the intake - that seems to be diminishing each flight.
I've made 5 short flights in the area sorting out issues.. man these planes fly nice.
It had horrrible radio performance but the avionics shop here found the radio to be perfect. Spent yesterday adding noise filters to the generator and power bus, replacing the electric turn-and-bank which was both sound and electrically noisy. Had the avionics shop add a cooling fan and plenum to the stack (WOW! the radios were HOT!). Hopefully today everything will be good and I'll take a run up to Paul's Valley Oklahoma for a shake-down - see if I can get to a decent altitude into cooler air.
Anyway, nice to virtually meet you all..
Bill Monroe. A&P/IA
 
I think you can edit those extra posts out of existence.
Congrats on the 14-19-3.
I have the opposite oil temp problem with my -2; mine runs cool, about 150, yet my cyl head temp runs a bit warm, about 375. I have to be careful on climbout, and keep my airspeed up so the cyl heads don't get past 400. I wonder if your oil cooler has that little air scoop that my -2 has? The Continental powered Cruisemasters all seem to have the oil coolers with downward airflow, whereas Vikings have a horizontal airflow to the oil cooler, and a bigger cowl opening.
My son Peter has a 14-19-3a and it has cool oil and cyl head temps, so maybe it's the outside air temp or a cooler issue? He has the same model engine as you, an IO-470 F.
Dang those run good! Sound great from the ground too.
 
Congratulations on you new airplane. Just after major overhaul is time for major caution. I would take the time to remove the lower cowl again and double check for chafing, exhaust leaks, tighten the intake hoses and be ready for pluged injectors. I had all those problems with mine following an overhaul. They were all caught early but I am glad I was not far from home. You sound like you are well equiped to handle any problems.

Do you have the down flow cooler or the horizontal cooler? My engine came with the "new" horizontal cooler. I changed back to the down flow because I did not want to cut the cowl make engineering changes and end up with cooling problems.

After the birth pains the plane has been an absolute joy. I am sure you will enjoy yours.

Peter
1966 260
 
Mine has the downflow style with the little scoop.
Test flew the avionics/filters work.. much better BUT, oil temp went to redline and oil pressure fell.
Decided to swap both the cooler and oil temp control valve with those from a known good engine. Discovered gasket wasnt right - instead of a perfectly aligned hole for the cooler ports there were kind of a slot cutout that was slightly smaller than the port - partially blocking it. Not very much and I dont think enough to be causing the problem. Installed new correct gasket.
Have to run to Ft Worth this morning to get a new O-Ring for the prop but should have it back together today for a test flight.
Also determined that oil drips are from the vacuum pump discharge.. argh. Looks like you have to loosen up the engine to make room behind the engine to get the pump out. The pump looks small too, hope it's not some special hard-to-find unit.
 
My Cruisemaster has a PESCO wet vacuum pump. They do exhaust oil vapor, which should be collected in a vapor separator with a drain back into the engine.
These pumps are the best, and last as long as the engine TBO. If you have one, and it's leaking a little, figure out how to work with it and be glad you've got it.
The vanes are much thicker than a dry vacuum pump, and run in oil, which is admitted from the engine thru a small port on the mount flange.
If all your vacuum pump and vapor separator hardware are in place, it could still drool from a loose fitting.
These engines are mounted very close to the firewall. Sometimes you just have to get an engine hoist (cherry picker) and lift the engine off it's mounts to get access to the back of the accessory drive case. Peter and I were able to change out the starter drive this way without resorting to disconnecting the fuel lines wires or control cables.
 
Oil temp still goes to redline, pressure falls to 20. I'm leaving it here in Dallas and going home.
Owner will try to fix it but we're both at a loss to explain the cause.. I'm afraid it may need tear down to inspect. Pity, compression is awesome and no discernable oil usage after 6 hours.

Wet pump is Garwin G540.. has the chamber.
 
If oil pressure is only low when temp is too hot, then I would look to the oil cooler, thermostat or something related to them. Perhaps the oil continues to bypass the cooler.
Perhaps the cooler is partially clogged. Perhaps the air doesn't flow thru the cooler as well as it should. maybe the air outlet is partly blocked? What is the Outside Air Temp?
Although you already mentioned it, perhaps the cooler mount gasket leaks internally and lets some oil bypass the cooler (as opposed to partially blocking the flow)
I'm just thinking that the engine is probably fine if it runs well and oil pressure is good when oil temps are normal. You shouldn't have to spend too much $ to find and fix this?
I changed a burnt out light bulb at work yesterday, but it still didn't work. I started to think there was something wrong with the circuit, but it was much simpler...the new bulb was bad from the start. Things like that can throw off your trouble shooting.
 
ya, did all that. This isnt my first Bar-B-Q :)

Pulled screen today.. bearing metal. Tear-down is in order. I'm thinking plugged/partialy blocked oil passage somewhere causing the high temp and the bearing wear (with the low oil pressure) is the result. A few weeks and I'll know for sure.

http://youtu.be/TmM3V9CLlFY
 
Hello Bill, welcome to the wonderful world of the Cardboard Connies...I am just up the road from you in Sanger, Tx ( 20 mi.)and also own a 1959-3 if you need any help!! My cell is 940-368-2835...Cheers Ken Volk.... :D :D BTW you will get some great help on this forum!!!
 
Thanks Ken,
I'm actually live in San Diego & Joshua Tree, California - but the plane is at 52F - Roanoke. I'm going to be going back out when the engine is re-rebuilt, maybe I'll make a point to come se ya when I'm breaking it in. Although, I'm not excited about flying in Texas in August.. sheesh.. the working in a hanger in the heat last week just about took it out of me.
 
Bill, I am curious about a couple things.... you just bought the plane, will the rebuild be at your expense, or was it identified as a problem during the pre-buy? Was the rebuild done by a reputable business that will guarantee their work and make it right? or will you be having someone else do the teardown? Sorry, don't mean to get too personal, just peaked my interest, as I just purchased a 14-19, and I did not do much at all for the pre-buy but after about 30hrs it looks like mine is in great shape.

Thanks, Ron
 
It's kind of complicated but no, I wont have to pay for the overhaul; just have to wait a litle more time. I originally went to see the man to look at some parts I was interested in buying to rebuild my -2. When I got there I found he also had a 14-19 and a 14-19-3 for sale - neither were actively being advertised. He had purchased the -3 a few years ago and discovered it had received fairly poor care and was suffering from deferred maintenance. He spent the time since going through it basically restoring it back.. landing gear rebuild, bearings/bushings replaced, brakes replaced, etc... it was emerging from this refurb and had a 0SMOH engine but wasnt quite ready to fly. I gave him a deposit, sold him my -2 project and went home until he had finished up the -3 and put some hours on it.
From what I understand, the plane's original engine had some issues (like a crack in one of the crankcase halves) but he had a nice inventory of parts aquired for other projects and decided to assemble them into a new engine. All had detailed inspection reports and were either new limits or remans. He aquired the bottom end overhauled and assembled. He completed the assembly and hung it on the plane. His workmanship is excellent as was also evident from looking at his recently restored Stinson and the work he was doing on a current -2 project.
When he first started running the -3 engine he had a couple of typical glitches i.e. fuel injection adjustments etc... but one persistant problem was high oil temp - oil pressure still very good. Tried several things but none worked. I went out the see if I could help (I'm A&P/IA). All the baffles are in place - new cowl seals - tried switching the cooler and control valve with known good units taken from a good running engine.. no change. pressure and temp on the ground good, goes to nearly redline on takeoff. I was beginning to think it was the gauge when on one flight the oil pressure dropped way down to around 20. Found metal in the screen.. He's tearing it down now.
Even though I spent a week there and came home empty, I had a great time despite the opressive heat and disgusting humidity! i have every confidence that he'll find whoever assembled that bottom end make an error like putting one or more bearings in backwards or something - he'll fix it and this will all be just a great lesson on why an abundance of caution is why there are old pilots...
It flys fantastic. Straight as an arrow, crazy climb rate even at conservative settings and handles like a go-kart on the ground.
I'm looking forward to another great mini-vacation in Texas and adding to the -3 lineup at Columbia next year.
 
SoCalPlaneDoc said:
I'm at KSEE adjacent to the museum.
Click to expand...

My friend has a Super Viking project at KSEE. He's on the south end, east side. Ron Quillin, good guy to know if you have an electrical issue.
 
Ya, there's a number of Viking projects around San Diego. None really seem to be going anywhere.
The A&P school here is finally selling their Bellanca which is being advertised as a Viking but its actually a 260B Cruisemaster. The auction house is calling it a 14-19-3 (argh). I went to that school more years ago than I'd like to admit and it was there.. It was donated due to wood rot - last couple of years it's been treated like a derelict and parked outside. It's a rusty wreck now: http://mccormackauction.auctionflex...297&archive=n&lso=lotnumasc&pagenum=1&lang=En

I looked at a project at KSEE awhile back that was OK but would take a lot to get going... The way prices have come down, a little careful shopping and you can find a nice flying plane for less money than rebuilding one..
 
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