How Many of You Fly Your Cruisair or Cruisemaster IFR?

Jonathan Baron

Jonathan Baron

New member
Although our aircraft would seem to be excellent instrument platforms (without that term meaning BORING), issues of older electrical systems, scant panel space for radios and indicators, and low output generators could make outfitting one for IFR difficult.

I realize that many of our planes were equipped for "blind flying" when they were sold. However, the IFR environment has changed quite a bit since then, to understate things.

Thus I was wondering how many you have your airplanes equipped for instrument flight? How much panel originality did you have to sacrifice? What equipment did you install? How does the 14 series stack up as an instrument airplane?

Jonathan
 
I fly my 14-19-3 in "light" (wx>1000&3) IFR quite a bit. If I didn't, I would not get the utilization out of the airplane it is capable of. It has a GNC-300 GPS/COM, plus i use an iPAQ with the "Anywhere" moving map software. The airplane makes for a very good instrument platform, but would benefit greatly from the addition of an autopilot.

Hope this helps,

John Morrison
N8856R
2M8
 
Thanks, John!

My 14-19 has a Brittain wing leveler that works quite well. Brittain also makes a tracking device that you can couple to a VOR or GPS but it's single axis. Both are legal in our aircraft.

Do you have pitot heat? What do you use for shooting an ILS, or do you keep it to non precision approaches only?

Jonathan
 
Jonathan, I do mild IFR in my 14-19-2. It has dual Collins Com, Collins Nav/VOR/ILS. Collins audio with marker, UPSAT GPS SL50, Sig 400 intercomm. older gyros ie horizonal DG and plane black Attitude, new turn /bank, Narco XPR with TCI encoder. It has no auto pilot so we take everything REAL EASY. The problem for me is with the high angle of attack to slow for gear and flaps the attitude indicatior is showing quite a climb and that unnerves me. So my IFR rule is --you break out then slow to gear and flap speed where I can see what is going on. Going to Oshkosh? I plan to be there all week. LYNN N9818B
 
Good point, Lynn, regarding the Bellanca gear/flaps heave-ho! Oh sure, you can carefully plan your descent and all, but most of us end up screaming into the downwind, cut power, and haul back on the yoke to dirty up the airplane.

One thing to consider is the fact that, once the gear is lowered, you can fly as fast as 167mph with the gear down, according to the TC. Thus, if you dropped them at the proper speed early in the approach, you could fly the approach at decent speed.

I have a Narco Nav 122, recently overhauled by Narco, that's the old style with the MB receiver and lights built into it. Plus I have a Narco 810 com, and AT50A transponder. Although I plan to fly in light IFR, I'd still like to add pitot heat, plus an approved GPS to handle NDB and DME chores, along with GPS non precision approaches.

Do you have a heated pitot on yours, Lynn?

Sorry, I will not be able to makes Oshkosh, alas :cry:

Jonathan
 
I should have mentioned that as well; Yes, I fly ILS approaches (NARCO Mk12D), and I have a heated pitot tube as well.

I concur with the statement about the low Vle for the airplanes, as somtimes ATC asks for a higher speed than Vle when on an approach! My 14-19-3 has the Aeroplastics main gear doors on it, so I do not fly above 124MPH with the gear down extended (legal to, but too much wear and tear on the doors!).

John Morrison
N8856R
 
I have a heated pitot on my crate because the previous owner mangled the left wheel and wing with a runway light. The pitot is a AN 5812 Aero Instrument P.H. 502-12, just like a Mooney. The static was installed like the super Viking on both sides of the fuselage and the original static from the pitot is not used. I redid all the static and pitot lines with standard Nyloseal from wing root to panel and Instruments. Again if I need Pitot heat I'm in deep crap and praying to GOD I'll never swear again! LYNN N9818B :!: :!:
 
Dunno, Lynn - if you need pitot heat you might only be in shallow crap :lol:

OTOH, if your vacuum system was powered by two honking venturis, as I have on my 14-19, and they iced up, add a crap fathom, along with the Howard Stark method of instrument flight.

Jonathan
 
Oh I forgot the 14-19 has venturies. I have a wet pump on my 19-2 and it failed last fall. The drive coupling went not the pump itself. I exchanged it with AERO ACCESSORIES. Good people no core charge until after 30 days. I also installed a NAV 122 on my Cherokee years ago. That is a wonderful unit! I remember paying 1200 bucks used now they are up to 2 grand. Best self contained unit ever made. I still would like the Bellanca book even though it stops at the 14-19 same frame different engine. Big Continental =Big Oil User I think this engine was designed by OPEC. LYNN N9818B :evil:
 
You forgot the nose, Lynn.....that magnificent longer cowl with the stainless steel trim, and a cowl front that smiles at you. Plus a metal panel and door, rather than fiberglass, as well as the aforementioned stately venturis!

Plus it's a New Castle airplane made by GM, Augie, and a whole passle of Sicilian craftsmen who mysteriously vanished when the last of the 14-19s flew away. I'm told the old man and his son had to perform shop work along with their Sicilian army; things were tight, as they always were it seems for Bellanca.

Practically speaking...well...it falls apart a bit. All hydraulics had to be rebuilt. Only one guy in the country would rebuild that Electrol 750 B power pack. All the plumbing from the venturis to the gauges and wing leveler had to be rerouted and replaced, as were all components of the wing leveler itself. The prop had to be completely overhauled. The engine is undergoing its overhaul now. The unaccounted for thousands slipped from my possession into the deserving pockets of a host of mechanics.

I could have bought the sweetest -2 extant for far less, yet I have nary a twinge of regret. Value, when it comes to aircraft, is rarely assessed by the mind. It exists in the heart or wherever our unquestioning yearning comes from.

Occassionally I joke about it as a disease: Aircraft Passion Purchasing Disorder, or APPD. I hope I'm never cured.

Jonathan
 
Jonathan, your a man after my own heart! I too have that Bellanca Blues sickness but with the dash two. I joke, be careful you might get what you ask for and at this stage in life I got what I wanted and thats that. My it never end--- I love it-- LYNN N9818B
 
We have managed to equip our 14-19-3 (8841R) with a Garmin GNS 430, updated the artificial horizon, directional giro, switched from a generator to an alternator, installed a JPI 700, and have backlit guages. The bird seems to be a great IFR platform but there is a deffinate need for an autopilot.
 
I love the APPD my wife says I difinetly have it. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
To my afflicted brethren 8)

Those of you who lament the absence of autopilots may be surprised that there is an autopilot still available and approved for the 14-19 series of aircraft. It does not feature altitude hold, nor does it provide auto turning but it's a solid series.

I have the Levelmatic device and it's a splendid wing leveler. When supplemented with the Accutrack, it will track a course and compensate for crosswind. I plan on getting the Accutrack....after I recover from my latest bout with APPD <cough>.

Two bad news items. First, the Levelmatic alone will add six pounds to your panel. Second, very few shops will install or service these units. Brittain does have a list of shops that will.

As for price, my 14-19 came with an owner "installed" Levelmatic that never worked. The cost to overhaul it and have it installed by a professional also turned out to involve total replumbing of the vacuum lines and such. Thus I don't know what the cost would be to install the Levelmatic alone or the Accutrack.

Here's the link: http://www.brittainautopilots.com/products.htm

Jonathan
 
Jonathan,

I looked at the Brittain site you mentioned. Just too old technology, especially if you want altitude hold capability (with 90 gallons/ 7 hours of fuel , I need it!). Also, will the brittain A/P be compatable with a GPSS Roll Steering Computer (i.e., S-TEC) so it well accuratly fly a GPS course?

John
 
You're quite right, John - old technology. Then again, that's what we're flying. The Brittain offers a single axis, no alt hold, no coupled approaches.

It will follow a GPS course quite well I was told by the fellow who fixed up the wing leveler in mine. VOR courses, particularly in areas with high MEAs and MRAs can involve some unnecessary corrections here and there.

Problem is that, of all the non-STCed mods, autopilots are perhaps the most difficult to gain 337 field or one time STC approval for. There were other approved Georges at one time by either defunct firms (e.g. Mitchell) or by companies, such as Century, that no longer support the old units.

For a list of all current STCs for our rides go to this link, hunt by TC and select 1A3. Don't get excited by some of the things you see at first. The early Viking was also manufactured under the same TC as the 14-19 series.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

Jonathan

I merely bro
 
I have just purchased a Cruisemaster 230 after decades of wanting one. I have been flying a Skyhawk in light IFR conditions and want to continue in the 230. I have a couple of questions. My experience is for 90 knot approach speeds and would like to continue the same in the Bellanca. What is the consensus about typical speeds for approaches?

Also I have questions about the completion of the approach. I am practicing no flap 90 to 100 knott wheel landings in anticipation of inability to slow sufficiently for three point on an approach to minimums. How many have experience with wheel landing procedure in the 230 and what are recommendations. One final thing, does anyone have comment on the use of slips in the 230 w or wo flaps.

Thanks
David Leigh
 
hey david!
congrats on finding one of the finest handling/performing classics there ever was!

although my cruisemaster is only a 190hp, the airframe and speeds are roughly the same, though you will have better climb performance with the 230hp.

i wouldn't worry too much about "keeping your speed up" on approach. all low wing bellancas, when properly rigged, have impeccable low speed manners. careful about the mph/kts, tho. the speeds given in the operating manual are MPH; flying by KTS could be confusing and you might exceed the gear/flap speeds. my airspeed indicator is mph (outside scale) and kts (inside scale). i find this to be a very workable setup

i also wouldn't practice wheelies at such a high speed. depending on your load, 75 to 80 MPH on final will be more than enough speed for a wheelie. 90 to 100 KTS (104.5 to 115 MPH!!) will eat up runway, tires / brakes and laundry budget! and anyway, with the cruisemaster's good crosswind manners i wonder why you would want that extra speed on a wet/slippery runway?

also, the bellanca flaps are EXTREMELY effective, especially given the low extension speed (86mph). with full flaps (46 degrees!) and low approach speeds, sink rates can go as high as 1500-2000 fpm! if you're concerned about transitioning to missed approach configuration, try an approach configuration of 1/2 flap ("one-potato"), 75 mph and carry just a little power (your setting will be different than mine: 230hp vs 190hp). with this setup the trim change will be minimal and the aircraft will climb acceptably on the miss. i don't think it will climb well with full flaps, even with 230hp.

slips are very stable but will produce real attention-getting sink rates, much like the full flaps configuration. the only difference is that (i don't think) there's a speed limitation for slips, whereas you must observe the 86mph limit for flap extension. but for a textbook stabilized ifr approach, i don't think slips should be neccessary. i would use that technique very judiciously.

sorry to be so verbose. hope this is of some use to you. please let us know what techniques you find most comfortable.

blue skies!
vic & N522A
 
I have a fine example of the poor judgment of applying the valid techniques of one aircraft to another. Before I flew my 'Master I flew a Luscombe - an aircraft with the most powerful rudder in GA. I was, thus, unprepared for wheelies in the Bellanca - an aircraft with one of the weakest rudders in GA. The Bellanca likes to be wheel landed, and it's easy to wheel land, but you don't want to wheel land it in crosswind. Those outboard tail surfaces - which make it the ONLY complex GA cruiser that never goes tail happy in turbulance - also hold a thoroughly nasty surprise when wind hits them sideways.

Comparing a 182 to a Cruisemaster is like comparing a wild turkey to an eagle. Both are noble - Benjamin Franklin prefered the former to the latter as our national bird - but they are so very different. Fly your master as Vic noted on approach. If they want to make disparaging remarks in the tower when you reply "Unable" to requests to keep your speed up on final, so be it.

There are many airliners. There are few Cruisemasters. The latter is an expression of a singular genius; the former is a product of committees and computer as they must be. They should step aside when a Cruisemater lands.

Jonathan
 
Vic and Jonathan hit the nail on the head! Be careful of the sink rate as it can be breathtaking. I don't get good results wheel landing my Cruisemaster. It seems to prefer the three point full stall and this is in a crosswind. Slips are no problem in all configurations. For best approaches my crate likes 75 mph plenty of control and moderate sink. You will find on final in a crosswind if you have enough rudder. If you can keep it straight your good to land if not find a different runway those three tails do keep it straight----into the wind! Best airplane I have ever flown! I got the Bellanca Blues Bad Real BAD! Lynn N9818B
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top