I Hate Toe Brakes

E

eppoh

New member
The pedals in this GCAA are not well desinged to incorporate toe brakes. It is too easy to apply brakes unintentionally when you think you are only applying rudder. Especially if you have big feet.

Let a freind fly my GCAA today ( with me in it). He learned to fly in a Champ about 50 years ago and flys a Challenger now..

On his first landing, he was a little hot and got a little cross ways. Tried to put in a lot of rudder, over corrected and began dancing. Just as I started to say, I got it, the tail came up simultaneously. He must have pulled his clodhoppers of the pedals just as I pulled back hard on the stick. The tail went back down. The prop must have been about an millimeter from the ashpalt!

I had breifed him about how easy it is to apply unwanted brakes, and how he would have to make a conscience effort to keep his heels way back from the pedals and use his toes only on the bottom of the pedals. To no avail.

I first noticed how easy it was to apply unwanted brakes when riding in the back with the previous owner during the pre-buy. He seemed to be on the brakes a lot taxiing. I admit the tail wheel is not nearly as responsive as my old Luscombe, but he just was unaware that he was applying brakes.

Looking at those pedals, it looks like if they were bent in a convex shape, it would make un intentional brake applications a little less likely.

Any one ever seen this done?

I have never bent a prop or put a scratch on a plane in over 20000 hours. Don't want this to be the first, especially when my big footed son starts taking dual from the front.
 
Spent some time under my 7ECA today, and it looks like the frame is welded for either toe or heel brakes. So maybe you could switch. I don't think it would require anything but a mechanic's sign-off, since heel brakes were standard at one point. Please get a 2nd opinion about all that :)

My size 9s don't reach heel brakes very well, but a clodhoppered passenger created an exciting moment once, so I know what you're talking about. No one wears Tevas or Chacos in my plane anymore!

-Alex
 
As you already know. Good landings begin with good approaches, It never matters to me how much time someone has, I don't let them do a landing in my airplane until they get the approach correct. Brake peddle geometry is all part of the (each bird has its own personality) When things start going wrong a person can forget what you told them in pre-flight quickly. A G-4 pilot friend of mine tried his best to bend a PA-20 on me once, he didnt but it was a bit of a ride.
Your fortunate not to have a bent airplane.
 
Personally, if I fly someone, i always jump in the back and fly it from there - that is where an instructor would sit and it ieasy - I have size 11 feet in a 1979 7 GCBC and haven't had a snag.

Flew a P*per C*b the other week from the back - what a pig that was ! 'Ronca's Rule AC !
 
The 8GCBC has double pucks like a heavier airplane would use. They are more sensitive to being flipped over if you are too rough. The smaller brakes found on the 7's and 8KCAB are not considered enough brake for the 8GCBC. And...they dont make anything inbetween.

Now, those brakes are too big....until you strap on some tundra tires. :)

Anyway, I just want to point out that its a bad example.
 
Jerry while your on the subject, is there a way to add more braking on the 8GCBC? I really have to stand on them with the tundra tires even after adding the 199-62 kit. Different master maybe?? Or is brake compound the trick.
 
I think thats the biggest brake they make for that rim size. So, I am out of answers there. Although, I could be wrong.
 
One thing I did during my rebuild was to put the older style toe break pedals on. I wanted them for their less incumbance between the front seat and the rear pedal channel area. A friend has a 7gcbc with 2 front lap belts. There is a real problem as far as room for the rear seat pilot feet goes, taking into account the seat belt mount to the floor in the same area as the rear pedals.. Seeing this , and having flown with the older style pedals before, and after flying his plane with the newer full pad pedal, I decided to go with the older style. Maybe I got lucky too as it seemed much harder to apply too much brake pedal inadvertenly with this sytle.
MP
 
To increase the braking on a 8GCBC, I don't know if you ever could get it approved, but I have seen photos of Cessna 185's with an additional dual pistion brake caliper mounted aft of the axle. Doubles the lining area but would require the peddle to move twice as far.Uses the same disc. Tim
 
I don't know if I have the new or older style pedals. Can you post a photo of yours when you have the time?
Maybe changing to the older style would be the way to go.
The other thing I have considered is putting a small 1 inch thick bar, horizontally across the bottom of the pedal. this would change the geometry so inadvertant pressure on the center or top of the pedal would not be so- inadvertant.
 
Are you resting your heel on the floor when you fly? That should generally elimate accidental brake use.

Other option might be to disconnect the pedals from the master cylinders and turn them down a turn or two. Then reconnect. This will pitch the pedals forward. Make sure you still have clearance for full rudder input though.
 
Heels always on the floor. I don't have to raise them to apply full braking. With my heels on the floor, parallel with the pedals, my toes hit half way up the pedals and push them over.

I have to land with my heels on the floor and pulled bake about 8 inches from the pedal, so I don't apply any brake when using the rudder.

No more adjustment left without the pedal hitting the frame at full rudder deflection.

I wear a size 10
 
Well, I am out of ideas for ya. :?

I went out and sat in an 8KCAB in the hanger here with my size 12s and had no issue avoiding brakes. Pushed rudder with the ball of my foot and pointed toes to get brakes. Seat was full aft.

On an unrelated note, its a 2 YO plane and they had the thinner back rest. I had lots of extra knee room.
 
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