Improving the Fit of the Door.

shipchief

shipchief

New member
9800B has a poor fitting door.
It has an STC for an inflatable door seal, which is now INOP due to leaks in the seal.
In flight, the door pops open about 1/2" as 9800B accelerates past 100 MPH. The top latch and aft latch still hold the door "shut" but the door appears to have lifted, and moved outboard at the front, the top and the bottom. The lower door locking bolt engages on the ground, and even pulls the door closed to the seal, but it does not engage deeply (so it won't scratch the wing) and I think it is pulled out of the sash plate when the door is aerodynamically lifted.
The front hinges seem to hold the door away from the fuse, like the inflatable seal might have put outward force on the door and moved something over time?
The cumulative result is a loud bang as 9800B accelerates past 100, and a lot of wind an noise thereafter.
I just took the hinge covers off on the inside of the fuse, the hinges and mount weldaments look sturdy, but not particularly adjustable? The bushing have some play, but not really loose.
The fiberglass door is somewhat flexible, but "should" hold well with 2 hinges and 3 latch points.
Any suggestions from the group?
I am inclined to remove the INOP inflatable door seal as a bad idea. The instructions tell where to remove material from the door to fit the inflatable seal, so I suppose these areas will need to be built back up or thicker seal material installed. I see some sealant has been used. It looks the same as the sealant used on the wing root fairings and fuel filler wells.
 
When I get back from 'Nam, I'll help you look into the door. '01B has a non-standard fourth pin that seems to work. Dan
 
Arr Mate, I had the same problem on the crate. I replaced both hinges and installed a new door seal. This fixed my problem. The door is a crap fit on these planes. I would wait to see what Dan C. has to say. My suggestion is to remove the door seal and install 1/4 round for starts. Lynn the crate 8)
 
How timely.

I own a sister ship, 9805B, and just last week I finally pulled off the leaking inflatable door seal. My door will stay closed but it is very difficult to get the lower pin to engage. After I removed the seal, the door had a noticeable sag. The two screws holding the lower hinge to the door were backed out. They were 6-32s but 8-32s fit right in so I may have solved the sag problem. I called the factory and Carroll said they originally used quarter-round on the doors. I have ordered some quarter round that I plan to install but I will certainly follow this thread closely. My hinges are in such bad shape that my plan is to try to install the seal with the door on the bird. We'll see how that goes.

Chuck
 
Chuck;
Your tip was good, My lower hinge bolts were also loose! the bolt heads on 2 of the 3 are covered with adhesive backed cloth that makes up part of the door suround, cover board and welt. I don't want to rip that up, because it's nearly perfect, but I need to fix it, so I'll come up with a way to get thru to those bolts. The bottom hinge @ the door is also a problem. The fiberglass door is very flexible where the hinge bolts to it. I may need to remove the door liner and repair the door skin/structure here. I just got a good start on it today, after Dan Cullman took a look at it and pointed out these problems.
 
I tried 1/2 " quarter-round from Spruce but it was too tight on the hinge side, so I pulled it out. The stuff I bought was solid. Hollow might work better. It turns out that pulling the door off the airplane was no big deal. I'll be struggling with the caps over the hinges, though.

I have ordered a seal kit from AvTek and I think that may be the answer because you tailor the thickness to the size of the gap you are trying to fill, and then the seal assumes the proper shape when the door is closed. They reccomend installing their seal with the door in place.

I have high hopes. One way or another I'll post the results in a week or so.

Chuck
 
I spent the last couple of days inspecting 9800B after our 2470 NM trip from Alexandria LA to Seattle WA.
The door is still a major concern. I removed the remaining bits of the inflatable door seal pump, hose and mount brackets from the door, and pealed back the door seal at the lower hinge. The most Fwd screw that goes into the lower hinge is installed behind the seal material. Yes, the head of the screw is covered by the door seal. :(
I pried the seal out of the way enough to get a philips screw driver in there, and (of course) it was loose.
My whole door sits low, but lifts a little when I close the latch and the spike goes down into the bottom latch plate.
All the door hardware is loose, including the top latch and the main latch mounting plate in the door.
 
Shipchief, you and I could have the same airplane. We certainly have the same door seal problems. I finally installed the AvTek door seal, and it seems to have done the job. It is pricey; 13 feet of double seal was about $125. The seal can be split for a total of 26'. I used one seal on the fuselage opening around the door, and one seal around the door except for the hinge side which has no seal on the door.

The seal has a self adhesive back but that didn't hold too well so I used 3M door seal adhesive to hold it down. I haven't flown the plane sine I re-glued the seal but it was fine before it came loose so it should be fine now. I had to fuss with the catch on the upper latch but it works smoother now than it ever has since I've owned the plane.

Chuck
 
Thanks Chuck;
AvTec? I'll give it a try.
I've been busy with 'post trip' inspection & maintenance after the 2470 NM trip, bringing it home. Oil change, control lube, under the panel stuff, and under parts of the interior.
I took it out 3 times last week, the last trip was finally in calm air. I took advantage of that to work on slow flight. I was very pleased with that.
I've been concerned about low oil pressure, but I checked the oil pressure gauge, and found it reads about 5 pounds low, so it was OK, plus I added a few shim washers under the relief valve after consulting with a local IA. That brought the pressure up, both cold and warm. I have other instruments to recalibrate as well.
My door fit and seals are only part of a larger problem of ill fitting panels. When flying above 150 MPH I can see the side cowls flairing out away from the nose bowl like air scoops.
Dan Cullman noticed the fit while looking at it in my hangar. Once I saw what he was talking about, I noticed the change of shape in flight.
Pulling this area down by using an aluminum shrinker will ruin the beutiful blue... :cry:
 
Old Hinges?
Lynn, did you make new ones or what?
I may take you up on that, plus, you have a request over in the flymarket for panel facia...Which I just took off of mine.
I don't want to give it up, but I would be willing to send it to you to make a pattern. It's fiberglass. Dan C has a similar facia in his Cruisemaster 'exibit' :wink: but it seems to be a better 'lay up'. Mine rubbed on the inside of the windshield at the top edges.
Love your video on Youtube...I wondered what I look like taxiing out, now I have a pretty good idea.
The Blue Cruiser Experience.....indeed.
 
Here's a link to the AvTek site: http://www.avtek2.com/airsqueeze_kits.htm

I bought the -02 kit. The price of 99.95 is plastered all over his web site, but when I authorized that expenditure on my Visa, I got an email saying the price had gone up. I pointed out the discrepancies with his web site and he said he checked but must have missed a few. I replied with links to about six pages with the old price listed, but he still hasn't changed it. He did give me free shipping for my trouble.

It's not a great website, but I am happy with the product and that's the important part.

Chuck
 
Arrr Mate: I bought the last two new hinges from AAC. They had them and I bought them. The P/N was 18060-1 top and 18060-2 bottom. As you can see on the you tube video the door works fine. Bellanca did not make a perfect airplane and the door on mine had been replace when it was on its back in 1960. Not a perfect fit but I fixed my problem. Still looking for the orignial inst. bezel and the 1958 color brochure from Bellanca ie Northern Aircraft. What do you want to do here? Lynn the crate :?
 
Lynn;
I'd be willing to ship my panel facia to you if you will send it back pretty soon.
You could make a mould from it or something, then send mine back.
As I said before, it does not fit well at the top edges, I think the original Bellanca mould must have been wearing out or changed.
I would like to make one that fits better.
 
Mate old salt: I will take you up on that offer when the smoke clears. In just 2 days I have to top a Turbo Arrow (crap engine if there ever was one) and friend backed his tractor into the wing of his Trigear TCraft. Of course now that Al Gore let the weather get better they want it NOW! So I am busy boy trying to get this done and do SAT checks too.Did you solve your door dilemma? Lynn :?:
 
Lynn;
not yet on the door for 9800B. I've been working the wife's Cessna (rebuild cylinder) and on the hangar doors.
Vacation is over, I'm back to work.
I did a Photo flight with Dan C.
Was fun to park 9800B next to 9801B, then go fly a bit.
 
I was told my 6561N really "Whistles" when making a low pass... my door seems to seal good, but the upper rear corner does protrude a bit from the fuselage. Any ideas on the "Whistle"? The door? Maybe the flying wires? The wheel wells? or the missing inspection plate nearest the outboard side of the right wheel?(just replaced it) It doesn't seem noticeable from inside, but then again my high freq hearing loss might preclude me from hearing it at all....
 
Ron;
I presume your door is made of aluminum?
I know the earliest 14-19-2s have aluminum doors, but 9800B has a fiberglass door, and it's not very rigid. The 3 factory latching points don't seem very well thought out. Well, the bottom latch is a pointed rod that pokes out the bottom of the door. It seems to locate the door well enough. But when the door lifts at about 100 MPH, the point withdraws slightly and the door moves outward. Also, the hinges at the front allow the door to spring outward. So the whole bottom half of the door is about 1/2" outward, very windy.
Also; 9800B cowl seems to fit loosely about the nose bowl. I can see the leading edge of the left side sticking out like a thin air scoop above 120 MPH. What a drag. :(
 
An idea you might think about: I have seen a Cruisair with a small rod(maybe 3/8 inch) protruding from the forward lower part of the door ,that when the door closed , the rod went into a small hole in the door frame that was lined with a piece of stainless tube. The owner said it cured the bottom of the door pulling out at speed. It was simple and hardly even noticeable. Cruisair doors are about as rigid as a dish rag, so anything is a help._____Grant.
 
I like that idea.
My son's 14-19-3A has a fiberglass door frame that is very rigid. I'm a true triple tail nut, but the 14-19-3A has some remarkable improvements in the door and tail.
The door has a spike in the top, near the front, much like the one you mention in the bottom. It it firmly held it the strong frame.
I start my days off from work in a couple of days, so I'll be looking at that door again...
 
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