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- Thread starter blimpy
- Start date
leadsledfan
New member
Blimpy,
My IA mounted the Groves to the side of the u channel and it works great!
I love them!
Let me know and I can email you pictures
My IA mounted the Groves to the side of the u channel and it works great!
I love them!
Let me know and I can email you pictures
leadsledfan
New member
No 337 for the masters, asked the FSDO but mutually decided that it wasn't needed and installed as "owner produced parts".
Sent pics to your email, also installed a remote reservoir.
I love the brakes!
Sent pics to your email, also installed a remote reservoir.
I love the brakes!
leadsledfan
New member
I guess it all depends on how you interpret the FARs.
but apparently using modern master cylinders is a very common swap on old birds, so it wasnt a huge deal.
I resent the email
hopefully you receive it
but apparently using modern master cylinders is a very common swap on old birds, so it wasnt a huge deal.
I resent the email
hopefully you receive it
leadsledfan
New member
Larry,
I bought the groves without the internal reservoirs because I quickly grew to despise laying on my belly to check / top off the master cylinders.
The new Groves each have a flexible line leading to a T that is fed by the remotely mounted reservoir which is on the engine side of my firewall, near my voltage regulator. This setup ensures that each master cylinder is always topped off, and allows me to check / fill fluid as easily as checking the oil.
I had the original scott master cylinders with the cleveland brake conversion and found the stopping power to be so so. I then started having issues with my master cylinders (leaking, rebuilt, bent pistons etc etc.) I made the call that instead of spending countless hours rebuilding them for at best marginal braking, I bought the groves and remote reservoir (around 500 bucks total) and I don't regret a single penny.
I had my Grove Master Cylinders installed while I was having a crack in the master cylinder bracket repaired, so it was all rolled together as far as installation, but my bird still have the original U-channel mounts for the master cylinder, and my Grove's are simply mounted onto the side of that U-channel with a bolt and washers. Later, we added a small spacer into the U-channel to prevent it from squeezing together when we tightened the new master cylinder bolt.
You are correct that the offset from original to "New" setup is roughly 3/16" but I have not found it to cause any problems with binding or "catching" and the brakes now work flawlessly.
My only caution is to be very careful the first couple of times you use the brakes.
When I had the old Scott master cylinders, they would not hold past about 1400 rpm. With the new Groves, I can do a full power run up if I desire. Also, they are very effective when taxiing, so when turning, I found I applied far too much pressure the first couple laps leading to fish tailing down the taxiways. They will also pop the tail up if you use them like you would use the old setup.
Once I lightened up the amount of pressure I was using, they work fantastically. I have significantly shortened my landing roll if I need it, and have much more control during crosswind work.
My setup was done by Guardian Aviation in Siler City, NC and Tom at Guardian would be more than happy to go over the (limited) technical details.
I hope to meet you at the Fly-in at Columbia, even if you have to take 4 wheels instead of 3.
-Adam
I bought the groves without the internal reservoirs because I quickly grew to despise laying on my belly to check / top off the master cylinders.
The new Groves each have a flexible line leading to a T that is fed by the remotely mounted reservoir which is on the engine side of my firewall, near my voltage regulator. This setup ensures that each master cylinder is always topped off, and allows me to check / fill fluid as easily as checking the oil.
I had the original scott master cylinders with the cleveland brake conversion and found the stopping power to be so so. I then started having issues with my master cylinders (leaking, rebuilt, bent pistons etc etc.) I made the call that instead of spending countless hours rebuilding them for at best marginal braking, I bought the groves and remote reservoir (around 500 bucks total) and I don't regret a single penny.
I had my Grove Master Cylinders installed while I was having a crack in the master cylinder bracket repaired, so it was all rolled together as far as installation, but my bird still have the original U-channel mounts for the master cylinder, and my Grove's are simply mounted onto the side of that U-channel with a bolt and washers. Later, we added a small spacer into the U-channel to prevent it from squeezing together when we tightened the new master cylinder bolt.
You are correct that the offset from original to "New" setup is roughly 3/16" but I have not found it to cause any problems with binding or "catching" and the brakes now work flawlessly.
My only caution is to be very careful the first couple of times you use the brakes.
When I had the old Scott master cylinders, they would not hold past about 1400 rpm. With the new Groves, I can do a full power run up if I desire. Also, they are very effective when taxiing, so when turning, I found I applied far too much pressure the first couple laps leading to fish tailing down the taxiways. They will also pop the tail up if you use them like you would use the old setup.
Once I lightened up the amount of pressure I was using, they work fantastically. I have significantly shortened my landing roll if I need it, and have much more control during crosswind work.
My setup was done by Guardian Aviation in Siler City, NC and Tom at Guardian would be more than happy to go over the (limited) technical details.
I hope to meet you at the Fly-in at Columbia, even if you have to take 4 wheels instead of 3.
-Adam
I think the real danger of using the original Scotts with Clevelands or even Bodels is that the increased pedal pressure needed to get decent braking is likely to break the bottom attachment point for the masters. We already have an AD on checking them every annual and I think that came up before people started putting more modern brakes on, so more pedal pressure could be an expensive disaster. Using any master cylinder that doesnt attach exactly like the Scotts could also be a big problem. On the second or third landing during my initial tailwheel checkout I looked over at the CFI and said we were done flying for the day. He looked kind of funny and asked why. The top of the master cylinder shaft had broken off and I only had one brake. It was some odd Cleveland that had an eye rather than a fork at the top and had been bolted to the side of the pedal arm. It was very lucky that it broke when I was almost stopped or it could have been a trip into the bushes. It apparently had been that way for years but it had to break during my checkout. I hope the Groves mount exactly the same as the old Scotts. _____Grant.
leadsledfan
New member
I don't notice any problem with the side mount of my master cylinders and have flown almost 75 hours since install.
The extreme pedal pressure using Clevelands and Scott masters caused the master cylinder bracket to crack on the tube leading to a 2500 dollar weld repair. not worth using the old masters.
The extreme pedal pressure using Clevelands and Scott masters caused the master cylinder bracket to crack on the tube leading to a 2500 dollar weld repair. not worth using the old masters.
leadsledfan
New member
The internal reservoir are the 675 series. Just measure your masters and see what length you need.
I used the remote reservoir masters, but they operate the same.
Also, customer service at Grove is great, give them a call sometime
I used the remote reservoir masters, but they operate the same.
Also, customer service at Grove is great, give them a call sometime