Interesting Log Book Entry
- Thread starter Rob58
- Start date
My first Cruisair had a lot of experimental time logged, but it was by the first owners, not the factory, so the plane was put into the experimental category. It was the Koppers Aeromatic Co. I dont know if the factory would need to put a plane in the experimental class to do testing on some new idea before the plane was issued a Certificate of Airworthiness. Things were more lax 50 years ago. Have you pulled the CD from the feds to see if anything interesting shows up in the records? ____Grant.
Rob58
Moderator
Grant, your comments are exactly on target. I do have the FAA CD history disc and I never thought of looking through the records. After reading the post I went through the early history. The plane was put into an experimental category by the factory and the record says "the purpose of this airplane is for research and development: checking new airspeed systems". This happened before issuing the airworthiness certificate. So now my question is - more out of curiosity - what new airspeed systems did they test? I wonder if any of the engineering notes and other documentation still exists after all of the changes of ownership of the factory? Anyway, thanks Grant!
Dan Cullman
New member
Casein glue was used in every pre-war Bellanca I have dealt with. "Penacolite," [Pennsylvania Coal]
a brand name for resorcinol glue was used post war.
Dan
a brand name for resorcinol glue was used post war.
Dan
Well! I just learned two things. I didnt know that Penacolite was just resorcinol, and I didnt know that earlier glues were Casein. Wasnt Caseins the reason Moonies had a lot of wing problems with their early M20s and Bellancas have had very little glue problems using Penacolite? Got to love this forum. ____Grant.
Larry Lowenkron
Member
Casein glue, (made from milk solids) is obsolete for use in aircraft. You may be able to use it, I wouldn't fly in the rain for long!
For the most part, it was replaced by urea formaldehyde resin (used in the Dehavilland Mosquitos). UF resin is not that great in moist environments either. Some Mosquitos actually had delamination problems in SE Asia, when they actually exceeded their combat life expectancy. Ever see what happens to a particleboard ( which uses UF resin) cabinet in a bathroom after a few years?
Resorcinol Formaldehyde resins are significantly more expensive, but as stated, are the preferred glue to use in aircraft. Takes more work to correctly prepare the surfaces to be bonded, but look at how long our wings have held up!
I am not aware of any epoxy resins that have been given the equivalent approval (FAA blessing) that RF resin has.
For the most part, it was replaced by urea formaldehyde resin (used in the Dehavilland Mosquitos). UF resin is not that great in moist environments either. Some Mosquitos actually had delamination problems in SE Asia, when they actually exceeded their combat life expectancy. Ever see what happens to a particleboard ( which uses UF resin) cabinet in a bathroom after a few years?
Resorcinol Formaldehyde resins are significantly more expensive, but as stated, are the preferred glue to use in aircraft. Takes more work to correctly prepare the surfaces to be bonded, but look at how long our wings have held up!
I am not aware of any epoxy resins that have been given the equivalent approval (FAA blessing) that RF resin has.
Dan Cullman
New member
Larry,
When AC43 was revised a couple years ago, epoxy glues were addressed and permitted as long as they
met ASTM, Mil-Spec. or SAE standards. I have been using nothing but T88 or West System for years. About
a dozen years ago, I spoke with the chief chemist at System Three, the producer of T88. He stated at
that at time more than 10,000 wings had been built/repaired with T88 with no documented glue failures.
Casein glue is outdated and I don't think anyone uses it any more. EVERYONE used it before WW2 and
before better glues were developed. As you stated, the glue has to be kept dry to be airworthy. Many
of my 14-9 and 14-12 wings still have perfect casein glue joints in them, but, when I do repairs, I use T88.
Dan
When AC43 was revised a couple years ago, epoxy glues were addressed and permitted as long as they
met ASTM, Mil-Spec. or SAE standards. I have been using nothing but T88 or West System for years. About
a dozen years ago, I spoke with the chief chemist at System Three, the producer of T88. He stated at
that at time more than 10,000 wings had been built/repaired with T88 with no documented glue failures.
Casein glue is outdated and I don't think anyone uses it any more. EVERYONE used it before WW2 and
before better glues were developed. As you stated, the glue has to be kept dry to be airworthy. Many
of my 14-9 and 14-12 wings still have perfect casein glue joints in them, but, when I do repairs, I use T88.
Dan
Larry Lowenkron
Member
You're right Dan. I guess I meant a specific specification as addressed in the paragraph in 43-13-1B regarding Resorcinol glues. I have also used T-88 and West Systems Epoxy (the latter has a resin/hardener combination that works in colder weather too).
Tony Horvath at our airport (Creswell) rebuilds Shaun Tucker's wings (every year?) and he uses T-88, so I guess that's a pretty good recommendation.
Tony Horvath at our airport (Creswell) rebuilds Shaun Tucker's wings (every year?) and he uses T-88, so I guess that's a pretty good recommendation.