Is the 165 Franklin approved for the 14-13-2?

P

planebones

New member
I just spent a couple of very frustrating days talking to my FAA FSDO. The concept of "Field Approvals" and one time STC's no longer exists it seems. I find no official approval to run a 165 Franklin on the Cruisair.......could the FAA say the airplanes are unairworthy? Could your insurance company deny a claim because the engiine isn't approved?.

What do you guys know?
I found an STC to put the 180 Frank. w C/S prop...but who can find an engine?

I wanted to take a Cessna 150 and put a Franklin 125hp engine on it and call the whole thing experimental NOPE, Field approval Nope, One time STC.? Nope....you can register it R&D and fly in a 100mile box and no passengers. (While guys fly over my house in flying lawn chairs with Geo Metro engines in them......?)
 
Kevin is correct. The airplane was certified with a Franklin 165 as a factory installed powerplant. You should be able to install one, provided you can locate one, with a minimal amount of paperwork. It is legal. The FAA should have known this and been more than willing to help you with it. Any Inspectors here care to weigh in on this?
 
The 165 was the optional engine. It would come with the 150 and you could ask to have the 165. There was a few guys that retrofitted with the 165 after purshase and flying for fews years with 150. I own one. It was born as a 14-13 with the 150 and retrofitted with 165 plus aeromatic, plus a different horizontal stab that made it become a 14-13-2. I don't exactly know what is the thing about the stab. I think it's the size and debatement of the elevator.
I don't have the aeromatic on it anymore. It was removed before I bought. The engine is from a stinson 108. A great engine with a nice throaty sound and smooth running. But it miss the aeromatic.
It climb like s-h-i-t but cruise real nice 150 plus in good conditions.

You should not have legal problem as it is part of the Type Certificate but be careful when it comes to the prop. I had to get an LSTC (Limited STC just for that bird) when I fitted the 150 fixed pitch sensenich wood prop because this combinaison does not show on the TC.
Or if you find the prop that is shown fitting with the engine on the TC it will facilitate your life. They refer to Aeromatic (4500.00$ from Tarver) or some others CS that can't be hardly found anymore.
If you have one for sale , let me know!!!
So there you are. Good luck!
Alain.
 
About 25 years ago I got a STC from a Dentist in Maryland for an all metal prop. I understand he is dead now, but the existance of the STC should make it easy to do. I have heard that metal props are more efficient than wood, but of course that is negated by their weight.
 
It is definitively more efficient, I experienced it on another bird.But you know about those crack occuring on the 165 h.p. flange if run between 21500 and 2250 rpm, that harmonic, well maybe there is not much change to cracj it, but those crack are so rare now that I don't even want to risk it. so I will live with this one until my little piggy banck is filled with enough $$$ for a Tarver aeromatic.
 
That was an early problem with the Franklin 165s that was fixed by the so-called heavy case Franklin. Nonetheless Alain, I'd stick with your plan. The smoothest ride in GA is a Franklin 150 driving an aeromatic. Folks are fond of saying there is no substitue for horsepower. As I've often said , there is: smoothness and efficiency. Horsepower alone has little to due with cruise speeds, and is seen largely in climb...yeah, it's cool to go up fast, but cruise gets us there.

Jonathan
 
You're right Jonathan about the aeromatic vs horsepower.
It is funny, I did not proof read before clicking the ''post'' button. 2 typo made my phrase completely wrong. :oops:
Here's what I ment.

''well maybe there is not much chance to crack it, but those crankshaft are so rare now that I don't even want to risk it. so I will live with this wood one until my little piggy bank is filled with enough $$$ for a Tarver aeromatic.''

The crack I am talking about is the one that can occur where the prop attach to the crankshaft. In between the lightning holes on the flange. The other one fixed by the heavy case was inside the crankcase on the bearing journal. I am still facing this AD at every 250 hrs, to inspect by removing the top cover. Because I don't have the heavy case. That cover is another great invention by Franklin that nobody else carried on. You can see your engine guts without having to split the case. Save lots of time.

There is an old timer hangar neighbor that bought an almost brand new 14-13-2 in early 50. He had 165 with aeromatic. He said the take off performance were just great and could squeeze in any field tha a C150 or 172 would go in and about cruise!!!, he could keep up with the big engine V tail right up their arse for way lower price on mtce and fuel. I really like these 14-13-2 and very proud of owning one. Maybe Santa will be nice one day for my aeromatic. Hope Tarver will still make some then. I understand there is quite a waiting list.

Alain.
 
I live at 6200 feet out here in eastern Idaho & the granulo-cumulo slots require about 11,000 to get through in 3 directions. I had been hoping to find a 165hp and do a few dirtry tricks to it to get a few more ponies. I had a 180hp Mooney up here & that laminar flow wing was happy up to 10,500, but as power dropped off, the angle of attack would rise enough to make the thing inefficient and it would say "they never made me do this back in Kerrville TX". I have flown Vikings and 14-19-2 up high and they run great. Does anyone have any experience flying 150hp Cruisairs up high? At this juncture I am praying that Alain will find his friends 150hp engine so I can have the priviledge of flying and whining about lack of power. I rarely fly with more than one passenger anyway. I have an Aeromatic w/ good blades, but some yard dog dissassembled the hub. If anyone sees an Aeromatic "high cruise" hub laying around let me know. Ken Mc
 
I have my Franklin 150 gone through by Witt's Aricraft Repair in Pine River, MN A friend of his told me that he had four rebuilt Franklin 165s
on a rack and ready to go. I didn't ask the price because I wanted to stick with my 150, but if anyone is interested, you could call Tom Witt
at 218 587-2158.
 
I have had both engines on my 14-13-3, there was a difference in take off roll and you really felt it in any turning or climbing and turning manuver. There is a mod to the mount to get the generator and carb zone to fit right. I am running an aeromatic and have no desire to run a metal prop........Greg
 
Ken
Got some news about the 150 I earlier mentionned about. The guy installed it ona Stinson and sold the bird. Sorry for making you waiting, had a hard time to track him.

Alain
 
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