Jonathon, nice article in the last newsletter!

A

alabamaflyboy

New member
I have been a fan of the triple tails since I first encountered one in the late 60s.

Like you, I have wondered why there haven't been more of them restored. They are relatively unique, have an interesting history, were designed by one of the most brilliant aircraft designers of their time, and are very fast for their horsepower.

The only conclusion that I have been able to come up with is that most of the other planes that get restored usually come with usable, or nearly usable wings, or at least have some drawings available to help the restorer rebuild them.

The Bellanca wing, while a thing of beauty, has a LOT of small parts. I would guess that, apart from the engine, the wings on the triple-tails were the most expensive, complex and labor intensive components on the airplane.

It is not difficult to find Bellanca fuselages at salvage yards (Viking ones anyway), but I almost never see a usable wing. With Bellancas, it seems that if a wing goes, the whole airplane winds up on the junk pile.

For the older planes, the cost of rebuilding a single new wing would easily exceed the value of the restored airplane.

I'm not sure how to fix this problem, but I sure wish we could find a way before all of them are gone.

David York
 
I have access to a set of Cruisair wings that would take a lot of repair......I haven't seen them in the daylight to carefully examine the spars ....but If someone really likes woodwork or has a nice fuselage & engine it might be feasable. locate in Iderhoooo Ken
 
Thanks David!

Bones' follow up post confirms what you said. When people who have built or restored aircraft see my Bellanca the first thing they notice is that no two ribs in the wing are the same size. Add to that G.M.'s Italian notion of proper craftmanship and, yeah, rotted wings mean a hopeless cause economically. It doesn't matter that this is, far and away, the best wing in GA history no matter if it's holding up the fuselage of a 14-9 Junior or a Super Viking.

You rebuild them for the joy of flying them only. Like the misunderstood word "amateur" from the latin, amat: to love. An amateur does something for the love of it, not for money. And one day, in contemporary times, alas that will not be enough I fear :cry:

For now, let's just fly!

Jonathan
 
Jonathan,

I just finished the Cessna 182 to 180 conversion that took a year to do. It was a wheels up restoration of a salvage yard pick.
I now have started back on Wilders Cruisemaster and want to to be able to have prints and spec's to work with rather than relying on my memory. So you will see me here from time to time pecking for information. You can see the latest project http://www.sillsaviation.com 182 to 180 conversion.

I will start a Bellanca link with pictures soon.

Glad your beast is back in the air.

see ya around.

joe:
 
David York- where are you in Alabama? I'm in Huntsville.

Personally I wouldn't be afraid to restore a Bellanca wing as long as it was complete so I could use the parts as guides.
I was fortunate- my Cruisair wings have always been hangared. The real concern is Resorcinol Glue deterioration. I don't see any particles in the wings so I believe I'm OK, but if it comes down to it, rebuilding my wings wouldn't be out of the question. It's not much more difficult than building a radio control airplane- just alot bigger and alot more parts.

The question of value for our birds is a double-edged sword. It would be nice for those of us that already have one for it to be a $60,000 bird, but then again, the low prices encourage folks to buy a Bellanca thus keeping more of them into the air and ensuring a relatively good parts availability- at least through places like the BCC.

Personally I believe there is going to be a "great awakening" soon when GA prices become so outrageous the average buyer will begin to take a closer look at Guiseppe's creations. :D
 
Dave,

I live down in the Mobile, AL area - in Daphne, AL, on the northeastern shore of Mobile Bay.

I have to tell you, Dave, that rebuilding a Bellanca wing would be a job of last resort for me. Not that I am afraid of the woodworking, or the 800+ pieces of wood that one of the oldtimers up at the old Alexandria wing plant told me went into each wing.

It's the special wing jigs that put *just* the right amount of dihedral and incidence into the wing spars and attach brackets.

It's the special metal forms and weighted straps that are used to shape wet plywood into the exact shape leading and trailing edges to the exact shape.

It's the dipping tank full of wood preserative into which each wing was submerged (and likely one of the main reasons that the wings have lasted as long as they have.)

I don't know the exact numbers, but I suspect that the cost of the wings of a new Viking very likely equals the cost of the engine.

It's a shame that so many people shy away from the wood airplanes. Possibly the few incidents where Bellancas were left outdoors for years and then had wing problems, coupled with the more well known problems with the early wood wing Mooneys have left a bad impression about wood winged aircraft.

But, unlike metal airplanes and some of the new plastic ones, there is no fatigue life limit to wood wings. As long as you keep long term moisture out of the wings, they will probably last longer than you or me. (I understand that the Cirrus planes have a surprisingly low maximum airframe life. After which you have to salvage as much as possible and throw the airframe away?)

Fortunately, most of the problems with the wood wings can be fixed by knowledgeable woodworking experts without requiring a complete rebuild and replacement.

I'm curious, have you run across any incidents of Resorcinol Glue deterioration? I have not found any evidence of it in my '50 Cruisemaster wings. It seems to be amazing stuff with a long lifetime, especially considering that it was developed back in the 30s. It was absolutely a couple of orders of magnitude better than the casein glues that it replaced.

As for prices, after I saw my first Bellanca back in the late 60s, I remember looking them up in Trade-A-Plane. The Cruisairs were going for about $3,500 and the Cruisemasters were going for about $5,000. So todays prices look much better, although maybe not if adjusted for inflation.

Anyway, it seems that GA prices have ALWAYS been outrageous.

Finally, out of a dozen or so previous Bellanca owners, I have only encountered one (a former Viking owner) who has not told me that they wished that they had kept their Bellanca. Every one of them (including the disgruntled former Viking owner) has told me that it was one of the sweetest flying planes that they had ever flown.

I'm sure looking forward to getting mine flying someday, and would love to see yours when it gets airborne.

Dave York
yok40@bellsouth.net
Daphne, AL
 
I restored a 47 14-13-2 back in 2000. Then came across a 68 viking fairly cheap and bought it. I started my buisness up and thought I needed more working capitol and sold the Viking. I kick my butt for 4 years untill my wife told me to find another Viking. I just bought a 74 Viking pretty reasonable and now I am a very happy camper with 2 bellancas in the hanger. They handle like no other plane. :lol: :lol: :D :D :lol: :lol:
 
The only deterioration I've seen is in the wingwalk area. I had to reinforce/ reglue that whole area because the glue bonds had broken. Of course the rest of the wing doesn't see such acute force in one area, so I imagine that's why the rest of the wing looks so great!
The leading edge in front of the wingwalk was cracked too so I reinforced that as well, but am not too happy with the result. I used a piece of 1/16 mahogany plywood and clamped it into place with Resorcinol. I have to get the resulting flat area back out, so it looks like a loooong day with a dremel tool and/ or a razor saw :x

I've always wondered why pilots shun the Bellanca and respect the Howard DGAs :? A Howard is just a Bellanca turned upside down with a radial engine.
You don't hear people whining about the wood wing on a Howard :!:
 
As I think I said in that article - or maybe I didn't - there is no rational basis for market value in GA, apart from commercial ops.

The appeal of the DGA is complex. Some of it comes from folks who are weary of having to load their airplanes carefully. Some of it comes from folks who want to haul ass; these are FAST airplanes. A lot comes from perceived prestige, especially nowadays. Most of us search ourselves, on a passionate level, when we choose an aircraft. Then we search our bank accounts. We end up with an expression of ourselves...and our means. Some want their aircraft to demonstrate their means. If this is your primary criteria...well...I'll park farther down the ramp :)

And you keep cracking me up Randy with this "My wife made me do it," schtick. No doubt she actually did, but oh how such things are a world away from most male pilot's experience :lol:

Jonathan
 
The Howard DGA 11 is a personal favorite of mine. I have a few minutes of time in a DGA-15P and it was like a locomotive on rails- power and a VERY smooth ride even in turbulence.

Yeah- a DGA-15P would be a great big ROOMY aircraft. Sort of your personal air liner. Wallace Beery and Jose Iturbe chose a Howard over all other contenders. One would be in good company!

Fact is, I can't really afford to operate a Howard- at least not now. I could just about afford to restore one and may someday, but keeping it may be a pipe dream.
One thing is definite. Even if I could afford a Howard and the ops cost, I would still have my Cruisair. IMO, it is an incredibly beautiful airplane and you just can't beat it for economical ops. A C-172 would be about the same cost per hour and look how much slower you go. :lol:
 
NC74392 said:
I've always wondered why pilots shun the Bellanca and respect the Howard DGAs :? A Howard is just a Bellanca turned upside down with a radial engine.
You don't hear people whining about the wood wing on a Howard :!:
Click to expand...

That's because they're just glad that it provides them mega-shade at the fly-ins. So what if the termites are at work overhead?... 8)
 
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