KING KCS 55A HSI SYSTEM on 14-13 ???

kitepilot

kitepilot

New member
Hello Collective Wisdom...
I have the opportunity to get a King KCS 55A HSI System:
http://www.bennettavionics.com/kcs55a.html
The whole enchilada...

Question is:
Who can install such a system on the 14-13?

My panel:
http://kitepilot.com/N74375/N74375-panel.jpg
I can take out the VOR/GS indicator on the VSI position, move the vacum DG to the right side, the VSI to where it belongs and drive the whole thing with the KX-175B. Or most likely I'll bite the bullet and get me a KX-155
Thanks!
ET
 
I want to alert you that the 55A system may need something with a nav converter aboard. I thought maybe this was the case and this excerpt from the Bennett Avionics site seems to say so:
"The King KX-165 NAV/COMM is very similar to the familiar KX-155, but with an important difference. Unlike the KX-155, the KX-165 does contain an internal VOR/LOC Converter. This means that the KX-165 may be used to directly drive the King KI-525A HSI, which is part of the King KCS-55A Compass System."
So, figure on a KX-165 instead of a KX-155 or KX-170B/175 if that is the case.

I just dug up a wiring diagram on the internet and, yeah, that is confirmed. If you (and me) had more panel space, a KNS-80 nav only would work. I wonder if the new Valcom nav will have an internal VOR/LOC converter? It is only 1/2 inch high. I have my eye on it for my upgrade..
ron
 
Whoa, Deja vu. I went through this decision/investigation process a year ago.. :)

I'm doing a panel re-do on my -3, even as I type this. An HSI is part of the mix. I looked at the King but eventually settled on a Century.
The electrical load required by the King system was a detractor, and installing the flux detector in the wing... I couldn't find a way that was acceptable. No matter how you do it, there's a lot of fiddling with that system and pro avionics installers do require a lot of $$/hour to fiddle (they deserve it though, crawling around under a panel is brutal work).
The Century model I got is vacuum driven, has no flux detector, and installation was *much* simpler and within my complexity tolerance. Yes, you have to sync it like a ordinary DG but the one I had in my Skylane seemed to never precess, even after 5 hour flights. Other's with the same Century HSIs have told me the same thing.
I paid 2K for it, it was a trade-in to my favorite local avionics shop from a Guy with a V-tailed lawyer killer in for an Aspen upgrade.
If you can get past all that stuff, the King is a nice unit to fly.
 
Oh boy...
Another (yet un-thought of) issue: electrical load!

So this is what I researched this morning:
I *DO* need a 14V KX-165 (anyone has one for sale?).

The little flux detector (I did read) can be installed (probably easier) on the tail.
But I need someone knowledgeable to cut and restore the fabric...
Anybody knows anyone?
Better near the Chattanooga area, but I am thinking of heading to Plainview or Pottstown.

I like the idea of the electric-driven HSI cuz I don't have a vacuum pump, I only have "horns" (which is better or worse depending on who you ask, and yes, you can smile at me "having horns" :) )
I plan on getting an electric AI (like I don't already have nuff' electrical load) and move both vacuum instruments to the right side as backup.

Now about the electrical draw issue:
What problems can I expect on my generator driven 150HP Franklin?
Should I avoid this 'overload' like the plague or will it just be a concern lingering in the back of my (empty) head?

As if I didn't have enough questions to answer already, I am also buying an Aeromatic prop, but that's probably another thread...
Thanks all!
 
I have put an encoding transponder on my 1413 but am leaving it pretty much like the day it rolled out of the factory. I asked about my small generator and my I. A. told me to just put in LED landing lights and I should never have a problem. (I don't plan to put in the LED bulbs unless I find that I really need them. These planes have been flying for sixty five years without LED lights.)
Gary
 
Gary, when the 14-13's rolled out of the factory the radio would have been a transmitter on 3105 kilocycles and a tunable receiver 200 kc to 400 kc hooked to a wire clothesline going from a cabin mast to the fin. That was if it was the swanky model. Don't go back THAT far. :D

Back to the future and panel re-makes. I do think an HSI is good. It is easier to fly and makes the panel scan more compact. For a more frugal HSI system, I have a DGO-10 and will make it work with a KX145 I have which uses a similar sine/cosine OBS system. Next stop - glass.

SoCal Bill's experience shows through with his comments. I had an avionics business for several years way back when this stuff was cutting edge new and have spent a lot of time upside down under instrument panels. I think a KCS-55 panel would be nice. But a Bellanca would be one of the tougher ones to work on, so expect a pretty good hit for install.
ron
 
kitepilot said:
I like the idea of the electric-driven HSI cuz I don't have a vacuum pump
Click to expand...
oh my gosh, I forgot about that. I should know better.
They're nice but are you really sure an HSI is going to give you return on the effort?
I've had problems with fluxers inside a tube cage like a Bellanca fuse.. Degaussing improved one, others never were able to get right. I always wrote it off to the steel either gaining or keeping a magnetic field but I cant really back that up with anything.
 
ronm said:
SoCal Bill's experience shows through with his comments.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ron. I made a little plywood stage that sits on the seat rails and extends forward and back so I could lay on something more comfortable when working under the panel of my -3. I'm *seriously* considering making the same removable-bootcowl mod that Ken Volk created before I swap out the panel later this year. Ken was kind enough to describe in pretty good detail how he did it.
The last time I worked under there I had to spend the entire evening in the Jacuzzi to undo the damage, but I was newlywed and that wasn't too bad a deal :D

Here's the panel plan:
N8805RNewPanelcopy_zps8f994654.jpg
 
:D Well since I have been drug into this thing, I will share my "repair" to my boot cowl !! I made a cut in the cowl from the lip at the firewall to the leading edge of wing (remove fairing if you have one) Install a "C"channel below the cut to stiffen and with #8 nutplates every one inch. Install a channel above the cut with a 2" wide outer plate that goes over the lower cowl with holes to allow screwing into nutplates. I had to repair my glare shield as well,and when I did, I put floating nut plates on it so that the windscreen lip which slides below the boot cowl is sandwiched in between a foam gasket glued inside the boot cowl and the glare shield. Now all you need to do is #1 remove screws in "repair" #2 remove screws from boot lip to firewall #3 remove screws from around windscreen and remove entire boot from floorboard to foorboard. Then grab a beverage and work on the circut breaker panel or everything behind the inst panel from a Lazy boy chair. :D
 
I have seen a 14-19-2 with the boot cowl inspection plates installed, and the owner said it was much easier to do panel work._____Grant.
 
kenvolk said:
:D Well since I have been drug into this thing, I will share my "repair" to my boot cowl !! I made a cut in the cowl from the lip at the firewall to the leading edge of wing (remove fairing if you have one) Install a "C"channel below the cut to stiffen and with #8 nutplates every one inch. Install a channel above the cut with a 2" wide outer plate that goes over the lower cowl with holes to allow screwing into nutplates. I had to repair my glare shield as well,and when I did, I put floating nut plates on it so that the windscreen lip which slides below the boot cowl is sandwiched in between a foam gasket glued inside the boot cowl and the glare shield. Now all you need to do is #1 remove screws in "repair" #2 remove screws from boot lip to firewall #3 remove screws from around windscreen and remove entire boot from floorboard to foorboard. Then grab a beverage and work on the circut breaker panel or everything behind the inst panel from a Lazy boy chair. :D
Click to expand...

Ken isn't kidding, I've now made the mod and can verify the access is astounding. I will never again crawl under that panel...
It was amazing to see how much sloppy work from the past was done under there, probably because it's such a brutal place to work..

 
Ken,
Did you get a 337 for modifying your boot cowel? In any case, I want to do the same thing to my bird as there will be substantial work behind the panel eventually. If you have a 337 it would save me a lot of time and if you have any detailed or not so detailed drawings, would it be possible to get a copy?
Thank you,
Gary Brink
 
Gary Brink said:
Ken,
Did you get a 337 for modifying your boot cowel? In any case, I want to do the same thing to my bird as there will be substantial work behind the panel eventually. If you have a 337 it would save me a lot of time and if you have any detailed or not so detailed drawings, would it be possible to get a copy?
Thank you,
Gary Brink
Click to expand...

It's a Minor Repair, no 337 needed.

Here's the guidance: Look at page 4: Section 5. Definitions - Para. l. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/list/AC%20120-77/$FILE/AC%20120-77.pdf

One could also argue it is a Minor Alteration but Paragraph K says a Major alteration is "An alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications." The cowl deal isn't listed but that's because there isn't a written spec at all. Still, it's best to avoid the conversation totally by just calling it a minor repair.
The reality is, there's so little documentation available one would have a hard time proving it wasn't there to begin with :D
 
Yes, I agree and Webers tell me that they see the cowel access every now and then and they are appreciative. However, I still am not sure that I understand how it was done after reading the post several times. Does the two inch strip of aluminum go on the outside of the cowel? If so, then I understand how it is done.
Thanks,
Gary
 
Gary Brink said:
Does the two inch strip of aluminum go on the outside of the cowel?
Click to expand...

That's pretty much how I'm doing it - riveted to the upper portion - anchor nuts on the lower. Adding a flanged stiffener to the lower section between the firewall and leading edge of the wing.
 
I'm going to try and put together a cowl "repair" article for the news letter at our leaders request !! ken :D
 
That would be great, Ken. However, I doubt that it will help me as I'm planning to be done with mine in the next couple of days. :D I have the cowels and nose bowl ready to go on but I still want access to the back of my new panel. Now is the time to make the minor alteration and shoot them with another coat of paint.
Gary
 
Boy, I wish I had that access. Right now I am upside down under my panel installing new gyros on a floating panel, and trying not to get nauseous. (ahh the joys of getting older! still beats the alternative).
Larry
 
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