Landing Speeds
- Thread starter nvracer
- Start date
cruiseair74372
New member
That is to fast If your airspeed indicater is right. How do you get stopped? Flap speed is only 85 mph. When fully loaded I use 85 mph Downwind and start slowing to 75 mph across the fence. If I am by myself I will come across the fence close to 65 mph. When you get a chance go out and do some stalls and slow flight with full flaps. You will be supprised how well the plane will handle around 60 mph with full flaps. Just keep the ball centered.I am one that preferes a full stall landing at a three point attutude. Some folks like a little more speed (about 5 mph ) and land on the mains. I believe it is what you get used to. :lol: :lol:
lwford
New member
Ray, I was landing my 14-19-2 at 80 mph and found from experiance this is to fast. I went out and stalled the crate and then did the 1.3 increase. I now aim for 70 mph but 66 mph is what I should do with full flaps. I found that the crate doesn't like the wheel landing and loves the 3 point, so with full flaps she lands great at 70mph to full stall at touch down. this is when the wind is down the runway crosswind is faster the three tails love to weather vane and puts you on your toes! LYNN N9818B 
Thanks guys,
I really appreciate the response. Your suggestions make sense and confirm my thoughts. I have been a student pilot for a while and have learned to fly in my 14-13-2. From the beginning, my instructor who has a lot of tail wheel time has insisted that I maintain 85 mph indicated to the flare because it gives better control. It is an awfully long time to maintain a hold off while bleeding off all of that speed and makes good landings difficult for me. I will experiment this weekend with lower speeds.
Thanks,
Ray
I really appreciate the response. Your suggestions make sense and confirm my thoughts. I have been a student pilot for a while and have learned to fly in my 14-13-2. From the beginning, my instructor who has a lot of tail wheel time has insisted that I maintain 85 mph indicated to the flare because it gives better control. It is an awfully long time to maintain a hold off while bleeding off all of that speed and makes good landings difficult for me. I will experiment this weekend with lower speeds.
Thanks,
Ray
hey ray!
if your instructor is insisting on 85mph all the way down to the runway, i'd advise that your instructor needs to spend some time with someone who knows this airplane well OR you need to find another instructor. 85mph to the flare is WAY too fast in this airplane and is really an unsafe procedure. for instance: if you were to encounter a diminishing headwind (or increasing tailwind) while on final, you could find yourself floating all the way down the runway and on into the weeds and the fence at the airport perimeter (very poor form). also, i don't understand the need for "better control". my bellanca has excellent control all the way into the stall. all flying machines' control pressures and rates change with speed, but i've never noticed a lack of control in the bellanca's low speed regimen.
i don't mean to sound pompous or disrespectful, but not all modern CFI's have the background and experience to teach effectively in these classic machines. it's not their fault, they just haven't had the training. hope you can get some better instruction. it would be a shame to have an accident in your own airplane because of an instructor's ignorance.
btw, does your airplane have brakes on both sides? is your instructor doing primary flight instruction in a tailwheel airplane with no brakes on his/her side? :shock: does this strike anyone else as less than prudent? or am i just getting old?
hope all this helps!
blue skies (and smooth landings!)
vic & N522A
if your instructor is insisting on 85mph all the way down to the runway, i'd advise that your instructor needs to spend some time with someone who knows this airplane well OR you need to find another instructor. 85mph to the flare is WAY too fast in this airplane and is really an unsafe procedure. for instance: if you were to encounter a diminishing headwind (or increasing tailwind) while on final, you could find yourself floating all the way down the runway and on into the weeds and the fence at the airport perimeter (very poor form). also, i don't understand the need for "better control". my bellanca has excellent control all the way into the stall. all flying machines' control pressures and rates change with speed, but i've never noticed a lack of control in the bellanca's low speed regimen.
i don't mean to sound pompous or disrespectful, but not all modern CFI's have the background and experience to teach effectively in these classic machines. it's not their fault, they just haven't had the training. hope you can get some better instruction. it would be a shame to have an accident in your own airplane because of an instructor's ignorance.
btw, does your airplane have brakes on both sides? is your instructor doing primary flight instruction in a tailwheel airplane with no brakes on his/her side? :shock: does this strike anyone else as less than prudent? or am i just getting old?
hope all this helps!
blue skies (and smooth landings!)
vic & N522A
hey mark!
well, ok. i'll admit that the "fly-by-wire" crowd has a bit of an edge as far as tailoring control laws to yield homogenous response thruout the flight envelope. but i was talking about "iron men in wooden ships"! in other words, real aviators connected to their real flying machines thru real tactile control systems. i'll leave the computer flying to the kids. (HA! now i'm sure of it! i'm definitly getting old!)
as far as adding brakes to the left side, i don't know. call the factory-i'll bet they've done it before.
very blue skies!
vic & (very old) N522A
well, ok. i'll admit that the "fly-by-wire" crowd has a bit of an edge as far as tailoring control laws to yield homogenous response thruout the flight envelope. but i was talking about "iron men in wooden ships"! in other words, real aviators connected to their real flying machines thru real tactile control systems. i'll leave the computer flying to the kids. (HA! now i'm sure of it! i'm definitly getting old!)
as far as adding brakes to the left side, i don't know. call the factory-i'll bet they've done it before.
very blue skies!
vic & (very old) N522A
cruiseair74372
New member
I have a 46 in my hanger apart that was modified at the factory in 51. one of the things done was brakes on right side. From what I can tell they added a set of pedals on the right like the left. Not all the parts are there, so it is kind of hard to tell what all was done.
Because an instructor has a lot of time in a tailwheel does not mean he knows how to fly all tailwheel airplanes. I have about a 1000 hrs in tailwheel and when I climb in someone elses tailwheel I will taxi down the runway at high speeds and get a fell for the plane. After takeoff I will go up and do a few stalls and slow turns to see how it handles. Then I am ready to try a landing or two. Try to find someone with time on a 14-13 or 14-19 even if they are not an instructor and get a couple of hours with them. There should be someone in your area that for the price of fuel will take you up. If you are in the North Texas area give me a call and mybe we can get together. Good luck. :lol: :lol: :lol: Randy
Because an instructor has a lot of time in a tailwheel does not mean he knows how to fly all tailwheel airplanes. I have about a 1000 hrs in tailwheel and when I climb in someone elses tailwheel I will taxi down the runway at high speeds and get a fell for the plane. After takeoff I will go up and do a few stalls and slow turns to see how it handles. Then I am ready to try a landing or two. Try to find someone with time on a 14-13 or 14-19 even if they are not an instructor and get a couple of hours with them. There should be someone in your area that for the price of fuel will take you up. If you are in the North Texas area give me a call and mybe we can get together. Good luck. :lol: :lol: :lol: Randy
My Cruisair stalls at 38-40 mph. Applying the 1.3 x stall rule, I come up with about 50-52mph on short final, which is just about perfect. Fly a Cruisair too fast on final, and she'll float forever. This is a SHORT FIELD airplane. With calm winds, I fly mine at 50mph on short final, 60mph if it is a little windier. For me, this is just about perfect.
Most of my flying time in the Cruisair is solo. It would make sense to use the upper end of the scale for dual operations. Go out and do some MCA flying!
Most of my flying time in the Cruisair is solo. It would make sense to use the upper end of the scale for dual operations. Go out and do some MCA flying!
cruiseair74372
New member
If you are stalling at 38 to 40 mph, Rudies instrument repair can fix your air speed indicator or you have the wrong tube under the wing. Or the little metal flap on the airspeed pickup is to far over the hole. Even the book doesn't show speeds that low. My 14-13-2 runs out of elevator control at about 56 mph It is a GREAT airplane to get into and out of short grass strips. :lol: :lol:
cglucas
New member
My 14-13-3 stall at about 35 to 37, I think the difference in your plane is your engine Randy. I never really look at the airspeed when I am landing but if I had to guess I would say about 60 to 65 on final depending on conditions. I have flown slower than a Champ on the field with an ag pilot in the champ an two people in my 14-13-3. He kept falling out while trying to stay with me...Greg
Most of my experience is solo at sea level or no more than 600MSL. Book numbers say the aircraft is fully controllable at 46mph. As we know, book numbers are always supposed to be at max gross weight.
I have never run out of elevator while airborne in my airplane. Perhaps the difference is your larger and heavier engine if you are running a 180hp. My prop is also likely lighter, producing a smaller forward moment. I am using a fixed-pitch prop.
Lastly, although my airspeed indicator MAY need calibration, I don't think so, because all of the other numbers are consistent with what one would expect for liftoff, cruise, etc, and I don't have any cover over my pitot tube. I have been very satisfied with my little Cruisair's performance.
I'll talk to you again on the phone soon, Randy, unless I hear from you by e-mail concerning the electric gear components.
Mike
I have never run out of elevator while airborne in my airplane. Perhaps the difference is your larger and heavier engine if you are running a 180hp. My prop is also likely lighter, producing a smaller forward moment. I am using a fixed-pitch prop.
Lastly, although my airspeed indicator MAY need calibration, I don't think so, because all of the other numbers are consistent with what one would expect for liftoff, cruise, etc, and I don't have any cover over my pitot tube. I have been very satisfied with my little Cruisair's performance.
I'll talk to you again on the phone soon, Randy, unless I hear from you by e-mail concerning the electric gear components.
Mike
Randy,
Your reply on this topic is in the wrong forum.
I am NOT decending at 1200ft/min with 50mph and full flaps. That's the point.
As another data point for you, I spoke to a guy today who told me that he would run out of elevator without the gap seal. Do you have the fabric gap seal on your elevator? Maybe that will make a difference.
I almost never wheel land my Cruisair.
Your reply on this topic is in the wrong forum.
I am NOT decending at 1200ft/min with 50mph and full flaps. That's the point.
As another data point for you, I spoke to a guy today who told me that he would run out of elevator without the gap seal. Do you have the fabric gap seal on your elevator? Maybe that will make a difference.
I almost never wheel land my Cruisair.
cruiseair74372
New member
If you don't have the gap seals the plane is not finished. The seals are part of the plane they are not an option. I have now had the oportunity to fly another 14-13-2 and it flys so much like mine it is hard to tell apart. I have also spent a little time in the left seat of a 14-19 and except for horsepower there is not much differant. Someone made a comment my 0-360 could be the cause of the fast decent, My plane weighs 102 pounds over what the factory say's and I would say most of that is paint ,differant gear and brakes. You all have fun. I'am done :lol: :lol: