NavStobe LED Bulbs Get FAA Approval

blimpy

New member
I got word that Some Versions of the NavStrobe LED strobing Nav Bulbs have now got FAA approval.

Check with Air Craft Spruce or the NavStrobe website to find out which ones have approval.

This is way groovey for those of us with limited electrical systems, and no desire to fish wires through the wings.

Never going to match real strobes, but better than nothing, and draw so little power that there is no reason
not to run them all the time.

larry :D
 
I looked at the web site, everything I found only referred to supposed compliance with ACs and some EU standards..
The reality is, you don't need an STC to use these lights. But you're still responsible to assure they were made to aircraft standards and that they are "at least equal to" original equipment. It's just like switching brands of oil filter or tires..
I bought one of the "strobing nav lights" awhile back to try it out.. I'd give it two thumbs down - but then again I'm anal about being seen at night. When on steady it's probably OK but strobing? no way.. it's more of a flicker and actually looks like it's suffering from a loose connection. In any unit of time it's actually LESS light. In the air, in my opinion, it wont get your attention unless you happen to be looking at the plane anyway...

I do love the way they use less current. a LOT less. But I went the upgrade to 70A Alternator route and added a couple of good-ol Whelan strobes to the top and bottom with a Comet Flash p/s. More work and expense but I'm lit up like a disco now. :)

A guy I know built a KR2 and molded-in some LED floods so that they light up the tail and fuselage - kinda like airlines do so they can show-the-colors while taxiing. On downwind his plane looks like it's glowing.. pretty freaky :)
 
Bill, which LED did you try? Were they the 7.5 w or the 30 w version? The 7.5w are for exp. only as noted on the A/C Spruce web site, see:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/navstrobesextant1.php

The 30w "... are standard parts and have been designed to meet the requirements of TSO-C30c. " See:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/navstrobesextant.php

Don't you have to use a TSO'd part if you are replacing a TSO'd part? My Whelen's were field approved, so I am trying to figure out if I can use the above reference 30w LEDs. If those are the ones you tried, I guess I will just move on. Thanks! Larry L
 
I got a 30W red unit.. as I recall after tax and shipping it was close to $100. The appeal for me was the long life and low current use.. I had great hopes.

** Brief disclaimer ** this is all my opinion from my experience. I'm not ashamed to admit I am extremely anal about being seen at night.

I was aware that despite all the claims about wattage and lumens and such, the real acceptance criteria is subjective. There's just no simple way to quantify and measure how effective it is at grabbing the attention of other's flying near you. The "proof is in the pudding" so, I bought one to try it out. I wanted to test it in real conditions so I installed it in my Skylane and had one of my partners fly it around the pattern while I stayed on the ground to watch, then took off in my 260 with another airport bum.. err Friend, and looked at it as another plane in the air with me..
He actually was the one that pointed out it looked like it was flickering, not strobing, and he was right. It truly looked like a tail light on a trailer going down the freeway at night with a bad ground. While on steady it might have been close to the original bulb but it was hard to tell, it certainly wasn't any better.
In the end I felt I'd rather put the extra money it costs to go LED lights on a more conventional solution and swap the 35A generator with a 75A Alternator (though I limited it to 50A). Going all LED including the 2 landing lights *might* have given me the juice I needed for the energy hungry strobes I wanted to install but would have cost as much as the alternator upgrade.. and now I have the advantages of the alternator too. The bulb now resides in the single tail light of my 1930 Model A Fordor until I get tired of messing with people behind me when they see it in flicker mode.
BTW, the LED landing lights were horrible.. Obviously lower emission, worthless in the daytime for use as additional identification..
I realize that us Cruisemaster guys with Continentals have time-proven STCs that make alternator upgrades a breeze and our Lyc/Franklin equipped brethren may not have it as easy. As a former Stinson owner I feel for you guys, I really do. I wish I had a simple answer for you.

Now, as to the whole TSO thing. The regs don't clearly give an answer (surprise!). Generally, you need to assure that parts which have an effect on airworthiness meet standards required for aircraft components. TSO is one example, there may be others. In any case, you should be able to point to something that clearly permits it's use...
From Navstrobe Website: These bulbs are standard parts and have been designed to meet the requirements of TSO-C30c. Yay! we're good-to-go right?
eh.. maybe not. The regs don't really define what standard means, and just because they designed it to meet the requirements doesn't mean they actually do. What I would want to see is something like: "Navstrobe certifies that these bulbs meet TSO-C30c." When I asked for something with at least that language, they declined saying it wasn't necessary. I disagree, and I'm the one that will have to defend it in the event of an action (or to my insurance company).
Maybe they are contracting the assembly to an outside shop - which may complicate getting the parts manufacturing approval (PMA).. but I digress.
I think they'll really just targeting the kitbuilt market. And more power to them! I hope they grow and prosper.
For now I'll stay with glowing tungsten filaments :D

I recently have been seduced by HID landing lights - especially the ones that "wigwag" flash between the two... mmmmmmm....
 
Thanks Bill,
I have other projects to keep me busy, and since I don't fly at night that much any more I will wait for a while until they're fully approved and can verify that they are as bright as my Whelens.
Larry L
 
when somebody builds a bulb replacement using CREE LED chips.... then you will see some bright assed light !
 
I found a you tube vid where someguy is showing his newly installed lamps..
http://youtu.be/AZqpxvt20EU

you can see what I mean by a flicker. since all it's doing is turning the power on and off rapidly, simple math demonstrates there is actually less light per unit time than leaving them on steady.

Aveo makes LED units that have color elements that stay on steady, with additional white elements acting as strobes.. Should be more effective but these are not simple bulb replacements.
 
I am here to learn, and much of what has been posted seems to be good observations about these LED's. Here are some observations of my own about the "30 watt" units.

First, they use six Cree 5 watt LED's each, but they are run at much less than their rated current. 30 watts at 14 volts is over 2 amps per unit. Running at rated they would need heatsinks. Instead, they run at much less current. The green unit draws .28 amp and the red unit draws .21 amp - that's good for our puny Franklin gens.

The comments at Spruce are rave reviews about how great they are even daytime. That is encouraging.

Now, the specology. I doubt if all the requirements of TSO-30C are met. The specs for that TSO are based on SAE 8037 which is not readily available(for free). However, it would have to satisfy part 23 or CAR4a light coverage requirements as well. From the way it is made it doesn't seem that it could be bright enough at the 8 and 4 o'clock directions where light would have to be cast behind the board. Also, there may be excessive overlap between the red and green zones.

The specs shown on the website are a mess. It tends to show that the purveyor himself doesn't know much about the subject. For example, he specs the red and green units with "color temperature" of ~500-600K . Well, a figure like that of half a million degrees would be more like x-rays, not visible light. Also, he seem to still be muddled by lumen and candlepower. This doesn't help having confidence in his the claim of "designed to meets TSO-30C requirement" much.

That said, there is the practical safety view. If strobes are out of reach and these units can improve chances of being seen as the testimonials seem to indicate , I say, go for it. The regs always work to protect the safety culture but not always our own bacon.
r
 
I haven't found any claimed " 30 watt" units.

All these so-called wattage "ratings" are based on some Chinese crack-pot idea of the lumen equivalence
of an incandescent ( usually Auto) lamp of the quoted wattage.

Next they wander over into candelas and not candle power

No doubt there is a conversion factor.

---

Short of a product actually having FAA/PMA approval it is almost certainly Chinese automotive crap
being flogged at inflated prices at the Aviation Market ( read sucker list ).

---

There apparently are some decent things for experimental use.

---

So far, anything that is a bulb replacement type.. fails badly on one of more of these important parameters:

1. Pattern. my "7.5 watt" LED bulbs are so screwy as to be dangerous from the forward direction.

2. Brightness at best these things MAY ( or may not ) meet the pre- 1978 ( read 1947) standards for brightness
same as an 1157 tail light bulb.

3. Strobe - my rosy red... snow man nose. They flash. So do pen lights.

4. Reliability - maybe the LED is supposed to have a life of XX,XXX hours, but if the drugged teenager who made
20,000 of them before lunch botched the soldering.. then they fail in 10 hours - like mine did $36 please!

5. Legality - none .

In the you tube video, they very carefull edit out the view from the position where there is no light to be seen, but should be !

----

I'll look at the FAA approved ones see what they are.
:|
 
OK, I'm backing up a tiny bit on my position using LED bulbs..

A few nights ago I'm stuck in traffic almost in-sight of my home and see what I *THINK* is a small jet heading my way.. couldn't see it (cuz it was dark) but it was moving like a jet... anyway.. it had entire wing tips that were lit white going on and off.. obviously LEDs but I can not tell you how FREEKING BRIGHT they were... it was mesmerizing. Probably cost as much as my whole plane but there's NO way you could go unseen...

Somewhere out there is a small jet (citation, eclipse, I don't know) with lights like the sun...

I want them :)
 
Only costs money! Whelen makes them, you pay for them! Have you try the lottery?
Hmmm - I stopped playing the lottery when I realized that since I had to travel a lot by commercial air and found out that the chances of dying in an airliner crash was greater than winning the lottery, I ought to stop betting against myself!
 
http://www.whelen.com/aviation/product.php?head_id=10&prod_id=161

LED position lights from Whelen can be found at:
http://www.whelen.com/aviation/category.php?head_id=10

I don't imagine what you saw on the jet would be to applicable to our planes, but Whelen does make the 71110 series, see:

http://www.whelen.com/aviation/product.php?head_id=10&prod_id=35

Not cheap! You might want to roam around their website and lust after their stuff.
 
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