Shoddy avionics work almost could have been deadly...

SoCalPlaneDoc

SoCalPlaneDoc

New member
So I took my -3 to a local shop to install a new avionics stack... long-standing place at my field. They did the Garmin/Aspen upgrade on my Skylane a few years ago and there's been zero problems so I let them take a crack at the Cruisemaster.. never again.
Nickel and dimed me several times.. claimed my AH was worn out (funny, didn't make any noise and seemed to work fine but whatever).. my TC was too big for where I wanted it, had to replace it.. etc... Busted the budget.
They tell me it's ready but when I get there they claim my static system fails and they cant sign it off "What do you want to do?" sheesh.. ya, they'll fix it for $90/hr. I tell them I'll fix it. I just replaced it all the way to the ports - had to remove the interior for annual anyway... It passes and I get the sign off.
First engine start.. mass fuel leaking on my right chin and foot. Investigation found B-nut on the firewall rattling loose.. not even finger tight. it's pretty obvious they had been fooling around behind the gauges whilst installing stuff..
Circuit breakers looked like they were installed by an alcoholic..
Only two shops on the field and the other one wont touch a job for under 100K - would rather fly his jet around.
Glad that's over with.

Looks like all I need to do now is make a new end for one of the retract cylinders with fluid oozing past the threaded fitting and I'm good to go...


https://youtu.be/WEaUNBpy6ws
 
SOCAL, give me a call. I will give you an end fitting. Just need to know if the port is in-line with the clevis pin or 90 degrees to the pin/hole. Grant. 707 279-9119
 
As for your problems with the radio shop this is just another reason why I prefer to do everything myself. Quality, attention to detail, common sense, and fairness is a hard combination to find anywhere these days... Rob
 
gjordan said:
SOCAL, give me a call. I will give you an end fitting. Just need to know if the port is in-line with the clevis pin or 90 degrees to the pin/hole. Grant. 707 279-9119
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Thanks Grant but hang on to it for now. I've got a CNC shop and I know how to use it :)
 
Rob58 said:
As for your problems with the radio shop this is just another reason why I prefer to do everything myself. Quality, attention to detail, common sense, and fairness is a hard combination to find anywhere these days... Rob
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Yes, I actually got my A&P so I could handle work on the Stinson I had in the 80s, got IA so I could do the annuals. It was impossible to find someone that would touch a Stinson in those days and opened the door to affordable ownership of the Bellanca.. I just don't have the time right now to undertake projects like the avionics refit and figured rather than continue to have it sit in the hanger, I'd have the shop do it. I'll be regretting that decision for a long time. There's also the issue of warranties not valid if a Garmin shop doesnt do the install and the availability of the new transponder for direct purchase..
 
The good news is, tightened up the fitting and no more leaks.. :)

Landing gear inspection went fine, all I have left is the tail group and annual is done.
 
Ouch, that sucks. I had a slightly different screw up from my avionics install last fall. Somehow, they moved the ground wire for the gear earning horn from its ground point to the hot side of the stall warning horn circuit breaker. Which is less than useful. Have to wonder sometimes...

I need to upgrade my second Nav/comm radios. Will be a used SL30 instead of one of the new Garmin units just to avoid an avionics shop being behind the panel again...
 
Here's a question I have always wondered about... why isn't there a safety wire feature (and requirement) for hose and tubing connections? Seems like it would be reasonably easy to provide the needed holes in the fittings. We safety almost every piece of hardware FWF, many of which are less critical than fuel and hydraulic connections. What's the logic behind this?
 
Rob58 said:
Here's a question I have always wondered about... why isn't there a safety wire feature (and requirement) for hose and tubing connections? Seems like it would be reasonably easy to provide the needed holes in the fittings. We safety almost every piece of hardware FWF, many of which are less critical than fuel and hydraulic connections. What's the logic behind this?
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I've seen them, I remember even canon plugs on the Huey i used to fly had them. It's a good question but I cant imagine trying to remove or install wire on the connectors at the top of the firewall behind the panel..
 
bbarrett said:
Ouch, that sucks. I had a slightly different screw up from my avionics install last fall. Somehow, they moved the ground wire for the gear earning horn from its ground point to the hot side of the stall warning horn circuit breaker. Which is less than useful. Have to wonder sometimes...

I need to upgrade my second Nav/comm radios. Will be a used SL30 instead of one of the new Garmin units just to avoid an avionics shop being behind the panel again...
Click to expand...

Hard to beat an SL30, although the user interface takes some getting used to. It's hard having all those features and only a few buttons to sort through them but man, does it reach out.
I had one installed in the Skylane right after Gamin bought Apollo. I could hear the ground control at my home airport from 90nm away while still behind a range of hills...
The Skylane is an excellent ground plane though, Bellancas not so much. I'm not expecting that kind of performance.
 
UPS Apollo made some great products. They were Garmins competition and kicking their butt. Garmin figured out how to beat them---they bought them and then no more UPS product or support. Just like Microsoft. Garmin now feels like it is too big to fail, it advertises to no end but this too will pass. I think we will see some change as the ADS-B mandate gets closer. Lynn the crate
 
Well I don't really think Garmin "feels" anything. They had the consumer GPS market cornered because the offered a quality line of products for a fair price. Wanting to get into the aviation market, they purchased Apollo.. not a competitor, a company with a quality product they could merge and leverage to expand their own product line.. It was a good deal for both, and for the aviation community..
Garmin lovers fly with lots of reliability back by a reputable company.
Garmin haters? Well.. I do see a lot of kluges by those with a "better idea" :D

Seriously though, if you fly around in nowhere BFE with little, if any, traffic control.. your old Narco is probably OK. I fly in Southern California. Flying under IFR while spewing ADS data gets respect and direct routes from TRACON.. the gas savings alone pays for the stack :)
 
I didn't love some of the UI of the GNS430 when I was renting to get my IR, but did like the good radios and reliable GPS. Really like the UI on the GTN650 that was installed in the Bellanca last year. Sure, I wish they hadn't done a software update that breaks the Mac software plug-in, but I'm pretty desensitized to that by this point in my life as a Mac user.

I actually think Garmin has more reasonable competition than 5 years ago. I spent a good deal of time playing with the Avidyne IFD440 and the Garmin GTN650. Bendix/King's unit doesn't look bad, but it's the "530 form factor" and they don't have one in the "430 form factor", and the 14-19-3 isn't know for its expansive radio stack space. I think both the Avidyne and Garmin are good units with companies that have been in the GA market for a while. If I had a SR22 with the big Avidyne panels, I bet the 440 would be a great update to end up single vendor. For me, though, the combination of button press and touch screen was a little convoluted. It took me a long time to figure out how to make it do what I wanted. Likely because of lots of 430 time and years of using an iPad, the 650 just made sense. I'd be willing to bet that the 440 is a lot like the UIs I spend all day around in the computer industry: terrible for new comers, but if you know what you're doing, you can make them sing. But I didn't feel like I was going to be able to stay at that level of proficiency.

My stack ended up being a PS Engineering PMA450, GTN650, GDL88, FlightStream 210. The GTX345 wasn't released yet, or I would have swapped the Narco transponder and the GDL88 for a GTX345 remote and clawed back even more panel space. When the cavity in the Narco dies, I'll sell the GDL88 and install a 345 remote (which will be a bunch of swapping pins, but not much extra wiring). I already had a KY97 and a VAL INS422 which I kept. The KY97 is a solid radio, but the INS422 is a little clunky. It works fine as a secondary VOR for finding radial crossings and flying an ILS on it is easy enough, but if you had to flip back and forth between two VORs because your other radio died and you were looking for an intersection, you're going to be a crater in IFR. It screams for a flip-flop button and has needed calibration more often than I'd like. So I keep my eyes out for a SL-30 for a winter project...
 
I tried the 650.. it seemed the gods knew when I was reaching for it and welcomed it with with turbulence.. that touch screen drove me nuts..

and the 430 was half the price :)

gunna head over and run the engine to see if the leaks really stopped...
 
Price and warranty issues aside, what are the differences between the older Garmin SL-30 and the newer GNC 255? Is there anything about the newer unit that would make it a compelling choice... maybe the higher power option? You guys seem to have some experience with this stuff which I don't!
 
SoCalPlaneDoc said:
I tried the 650.. it seemed the gods knew when I was reaching for it and welcomed it with with turbulence.. that touch screen drove me nuts..

and the 430 was half the price :)

gunna head over and run the engine to see if the leaks really stopped...
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Thus far, the turbulence hasn't been a problem for me. The local shops weren't in the 50% off range for the 430s. It was hardly a cost difference, actually.

Was going to run up this morning hoping the newly overhauled prop won't leak red oil on the second try. Unfortunately, discovered the gear down switch on the left main gear no longer functions. Time to hunt for new old stock and try again next weekend.
 
Rob58 said:
Price and warranty issues aside, what are the differences between the older Garmin SL-30 and the newer GNC 255? Is there anything about the newer unit that would make it a compelling choice... maybe the higher power option? You guys seem to have some experience with this stuff which I don't!
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16 watts is attractive (my 430 is the 16 watt version). I think it's only really a benefit if you're often a long way from the stations you want to contact.. Alaska, northern New Mexico, Utah, West texas.. etc.. On the other hand, I flew through that area with only an old Narco and did OK... I think the differences are few and minor (unless you use night vision goggles and would benefit from the new panel display)
It looks to me like the biggest change has to do with complying with newish euro requirements so if you're planning some super-long cross country flights, maybe that's a benefit? :)
I think there might be some cross-pollinating capability but not sure about that.
I've never had a single issue with my SL30 and i know several homebuilders that fly with one as their sole radio.. The Fly Baby in the hanger next to me uses one along with a pitts down the row.. they benefit from it's small size and rock solid performance. If you find a good deal on one it would be hard to beat. I have mine connected to a 70s vintage Collins OBS with glideslope.. works great.
 
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