Spruced "Goose"
- Thread starter blimpy
- Start date
Larry Lowenkron
Member
Larry, give me a call...we need to talk!
LL
LL
SoCalPlaneDoc
New member
Lawrence..
I was inserting the latest 337 into my -3's records and stumbled on something you might find useful. Someone in the past apparently mis-filed a 337 package for a 14-13-2 for installing Cleveland brakes. Dated 1989, it includes instructions from Miller Aircraft and drawings for the Clevelands.
They took an STC owned by Millers for installing the brakes on 14-19 and 14-19-2, and obtained a field approval to use that STC on a 14-13-2. Addition instructions to accomplish that install was provided by Millers
The 337 has the field approval stamp dated 9/26/89 and was done in Juneau, Wisconsin
want a copy?
I was inserting the latest 337 into my -3's records and stumbled on something you might find useful. Someone in the past apparently mis-filed a 337 package for a 14-13-2 for installing Cleveland brakes. Dated 1989, it includes instructions from Miller Aircraft and drawings for the Clevelands.
They took an STC owned by Millers for installing the brakes on 14-19 and 14-19-2, and obtained a field approval to use that STC on a 14-13-2. Addition instructions to accomplish that install was provided by Millers
The 337 has the field approval stamp dated 9/26/89 and was done in Juneau, Wisconsin
want a copy?
blimpy
New member
Well, Dan Torrey has provided some great phone support and advice. I will ferry the cruisaire down to him for Annual Inspection, and a few repairs/ replacements- Mid April. Adding the Oil Filter with a 337 will be a Major Improvement
in my mind.
Meanwhile , since I have almost a month- I'm having at the fabric and paint problems that made my wings
less than wonderful looking - especially to wood-averse "buyers".
As a Test, I took some sand paper to some of the paint cracks on top of the wings.
Auto paint was applied too heavily over the original red dope and fabric.
I was so surprised when I found out how easy it is to feather out this ugly stuff, and that the cotton below was still intact - that I just did almost all of it in one go - about 2 hours.
I was concerned I might find the cotton covering split too. But didn't, except where I picked at the loose paint edge
and pulled away a little.. with fabric attached. :roll:
In some places it looks like I have dope applied over the auto paint.. in a fetching variety of shades !
And those lovely spots from a white spray can on the cream white paint.
I will clean all these sanded areas up with a tack cloth and then acetone or MEK. Then use dope to seal and stabilize everything... paint and fabric. Luckily, only a couple of places the size of my little finger nail need filler, and a tiny fabric patch.
I'm hoping that by getting some Randolph dope that is a good color match for the existing paint, I can use my touch up spray gun to get a decent looking result.
Sure it's "lipstick on a pig", but the pig likes it and so does the owner.
This is Not a substitute for stripping the wings down to the wood, recovering with ceconite and using the proper paint,
but at least it's getting better, and I'm learning. I call it Conservation. What's there will remain sound and usable.
Some day somebody will come along who can do a complete restoration. What's the first thing in the Hippocratic Oath? Do no harm ?
in my mind.
Meanwhile , since I have almost a month- I'm having at the fabric and paint problems that made my wings
less than wonderful looking - especially to wood-averse "buyers".
As a Test, I took some sand paper to some of the paint cracks on top of the wings.
Auto paint was applied too heavily over the original red dope and fabric.
I was so surprised when I found out how easy it is to feather out this ugly stuff, and that the cotton below was still intact - that I just did almost all of it in one go - about 2 hours.
I was concerned I might find the cotton covering split too. But didn't, except where I picked at the loose paint edge
and pulled away a little.. with fabric attached. :roll:
In some places it looks like I have dope applied over the auto paint.. in a fetching variety of shades !
And those lovely spots from a white spray can on the cream white paint.
I will clean all these sanded areas up with a tack cloth and then acetone or MEK. Then use dope to seal and stabilize everything... paint and fabric. Luckily, only a couple of places the size of my little finger nail need filler, and a tiny fabric patch.
I'm hoping that by getting some Randolph dope that is a good color match for the existing paint, I can use my touch up spray gun to get a decent looking result.
Sure it's "lipstick on a pig", but the pig likes it and so does the owner.
This is Not a substitute for stripping the wings down to the wood, recovering with ceconite and using the proper paint,
but at least it's getting better, and I'm learning. I call it Conservation. What's there will remain sound and usable.
Some day somebody will come along who can do a complete restoration. What's the first thing in the Hippocratic Oath? Do no harm ?
Many years ago I had a tape (VCR) from Ray Stitts on covering, and he used a Cruisair wing as the example. One of his comments was that if the cotton underneath didnt have problems, then you dont need to strip it. Just build up the Stitts products (dope). Rules may have changed since then, so you might want to check on it, but dont create more work for yourself than is required. Just my 2 cents worth.
Larry Lowenkron
Member
Don't mix chemistry. If you have a doped structure continue to use dope. If you have Polyfiber (Stits) then use that. DON'T MIX THEM!!
blimpy
New member
Larry... sage advice.
Yes, I will send your message via my time machine to the fellow who in the 1970's sprayed
Auto Enamel over the factory dope and cotton, with CC's to the guys since who have used:
dope
spray cans
stitts
and
??? stuff ??
Trying to patch the wings ever since.
---
But Seriously: Yes, my trying to use dope to patch flaws in the DuPont enamel over dope has been frustrating,
and way more (toxic) trouble than it was worth.
I've been trying to do exactly what you warned against... thinking some how I wasn't !
The dope solvents bubble up anything that came out of a spray can ( which had xyzlene solvent). xyz indeed.
I was reluctant to use epoxy and micro balloons.. but clearly this is a better way to go.
it is sandable, and can be touched up with more enamel, less toxically and with less trouble than dope.
I guess I was afraid the epoxy would bond the cotton to the mahogany underneath and make problems later,
but the cotton is already sealed and that clearly can't happen.
Had the stuff all along, but was afraid to use it. Back to square one.
The whole paint system - on the wings- is basically a failure. In places the cotton came unbonded and has been replaced.
I am not seeing any more of THAT. Thank god.
The enamel is peeling on the undersides, in spots, with red dope showing . Enamel is not flexing and so breaking - most everywhere in dibs and dabs... which is what I am patching.
Sanding has revealed that the cotton underneath is intact..So this is cosmetic eyesore that looks "scary" but really isn't.
So, from my point of view, anything I do is temporary and touch up, just to maintain "water tight integrity"
as they say on submarines :wink: and make it more cosmetically acceptable.
It really is putting paint on a pig, because the enamel will continue to crack .. simply because it is the Wrong Stuff.
Cooper - who used to own Ceconite back in the day - corresponded with the owner who made the original mistake
of using Dupont Enamel, I still have the letters from the 1970's in the airplane files. At the time, Cooper said the only cure was to strip the stuff off down to the fabric and start over.
Waaaaay to late for that now ! It is NOT time or cost effective to strip the enamel.. trying to save 67 year old cotton !
When it's time..( read next owner) the wings should come off, get shed of their covering, get a good once over, and then get recovered from scratch with modern materials .
If you follow the ceconite manual.. with a diluted coat of epoxy on the skin first.
I haven't read the Stitts manual.. different process.
But I am pretty damn sure that I don't want to swim in a sea of toxic solvents (Nitrate, Butyrate) or work with Urethanes
either !
--
Meanwhile, I will do what I can do.
- Every failure is a learning opportunity-
I am learning so damn much !
Yes, I will send your message via my time machine to the fellow who in the 1970's sprayed
Auto Enamel over the factory dope and cotton, with CC's to the guys since who have used:
dope
spray cans
stitts
and
??? stuff ??
Trying to patch the wings ever since.
---
But Seriously: Yes, my trying to use dope to patch flaws in the DuPont enamel over dope has been frustrating,
and way more (toxic) trouble than it was worth.
I've been trying to do exactly what you warned against... thinking some how I wasn't !
The dope solvents bubble up anything that came out of a spray can ( which had xyzlene solvent). xyz indeed.
I was reluctant to use epoxy and micro balloons.. but clearly this is a better way to go.
it is sandable, and can be touched up with more enamel, less toxically and with less trouble than dope.
I guess I was afraid the epoxy would bond the cotton to the mahogany underneath and make problems later,
but the cotton is already sealed and that clearly can't happen.
Had the stuff all along, but was afraid to use it. Back to square one.
The whole paint system - on the wings- is basically a failure. In places the cotton came unbonded and has been replaced.
I am not seeing any more of THAT. Thank god.
The enamel is peeling on the undersides, in spots, with red dope showing . Enamel is not flexing and so breaking - most everywhere in dibs and dabs... which is what I am patching.
Sanding has revealed that the cotton underneath is intact..So this is cosmetic eyesore that looks "scary" but really isn't.
So, from my point of view, anything I do is temporary and touch up, just to maintain "water tight integrity"
as they say on submarines :wink: and make it more cosmetically acceptable.
It really is putting paint on a pig, because the enamel will continue to crack .. simply because it is the Wrong Stuff.
Cooper - who used to own Ceconite back in the day - corresponded with the owner who made the original mistake
of using Dupont Enamel, I still have the letters from the 1970's in the airplane files. At the time, Cooper said the only cure was to strip the stuff off down to the fabric and start over.
Waaaaay to late for that now ! It is NOT time or cost effective to strip the enamel.. trying to save 67 year old cotton !
When it's time..( read next owner) the wings should come off, get shed of their covering, get a good once over, and then get recovered from scratch with modern materials .
If you follow the ceconite manual.. with a diluted coat of epoxy on the skin first.
I haven't read the Stitts manual.. different process.
But I am pretty damn sure that I don't want to swim in a sea of toxic solvents (Nitrate, Butyrate) or work with Urethanes
either !
--
Meanwhile, I will do what I can do.
- Every failure is a learning opportunity-
I am learning so damn much !