starting problem

mtaylor

New member
my 14-19-3 1960 260 has starting problems, sort of. If it turns over just one or two times it fires right up. the problem is getting it to spin over. what is the solenoid mid way under the baggage compartment for? there is another solenoid on the firewall. The positive cable is copper as well as the ground cable as is the cable from the firewall soleniod to the starter. The log books indicate a starter replacement 6 months ago. The generator puts out about 11 volts and the battery is a new Gill. Anyone have any good suggestions.
Micheal
 
For one thing the generator should put out 14.7volts after a start until battery is recharged at which time it should back down to 13 volts + or - . Your regulator could be defective. Ken
 
What "Bones" said Micheal. I had the same problem even though a previous owner had performed the popular mod of yanking all the aluminium wire and moving the battery from the tail to a spot under the baggage compartment floor. And I also had a new Gill.

They don't call them voltage regulators anymore....I forget what the new name is, but they're solid state and quite shiny. Best part is they work quite well :wink:

Jonathan
 
You can take the regulator to an autozone store and they can get you an electronic regulator that looks almost like you have. Remove the cover fron the old one and install on the new one and don't tell your IA. :lol: :lol: :D
 
I'm having similar problems with my KCAB. It has a fairly new battery (less than 2 years old) and it won't crank over. I just assumed it needed a new battery. I was told today that they won't last more than 2 years. Is this true? I read another post here of an owner who thought it might be time to replace his 6 year old battery. That sounds more like it.

I haven't flown for a month or so. I put a trickle charger on for a week but it still cranks the same. Half a rotation at a time with no start.

So far I've seen posts on new batterys, solenoids, new wiring, and new starters. Can you guys please explain (in laymans terms) how all of this works together and where is the best place to start?

On another note, what do you all think of preheating?

Thanks,
Doug
(New owner)
 
Hey Doug!

Aircraft batteries cannot be allowed to totally discharge. If they do, they're trash, alas. Age is less a determining factor than use. Most so-called trickle chargers are not much help. You need, for the lack of precise technical terms, smart chargers that know how much charging the battery needs, and when to quit. You can find the Battery Tender (a fine maintenance charger) at many auto parts stores. Another problem with trickle chargers, even the smart ones, is they are useless for batteries at death's door.

In short, if the battery cannot hold a charge, you need a new one, regardless of its time in service. As with all things in aviation, frequent use and proper maintenance make all the difference. If a new battery is not getting properly charged in flight, then look to the voltage regulator. If the charging system is fine and your battery is still being drained, you've got an insideous current drain but that's unlikely. These are simple systems compared to automobiles or new all-electric aircraft.

Buy a new battery, Doug, and fly frequently. If you can't do the latter, use a smart charger in between flights.

If you'd like a more detailed explanation of what happens to these batteries due to lack of use, just say the word and I'll provide one.

And, BTW, congratulations on your new ride :)

Jonathan
 
Thank you very much for the reply. I do appreciate it. That's why I like this group . . . everybody is there to help.

Any good brand for the smart charger?

I am in to details if you have the time. Thanks again,

Doug
 
Doug:

Battery Tender is actually the brand name of a smart charger.

As for an easy to read technical explanation, I'll quote an article on aircraft batteries from Aviation Consumer. As this quote is not for profit and is not physically reprinted for distribution, I believe this is a legal use of the material. I might add that Aviation Consumer is a wonderful magazine. It's pricey because it accepts no advertising ($57/yr or so) but that's what keeps it objective. The reason I love it is that it covers everything from high dollar stuff to things everyone uses, such as spark plugs, oil, oil filters, batteries, cleaners and waxes, flashlights....you get the idea :)

Jonathan

Battery Physiology
While most owners are familiar with the typical lead-acid wet-cell or flooded-cell battery, sealed batteries are far less well understood and that may be the reason they haven’t really caught on in light aircraft. Aviation wet cells are nearly the same as the typical modern auto battery, with the exception of a higher specific gravity electrolyte (1.285 versus 1.265 for the car battery), positive gas venting, lower capacity to save weight and non-spill vent caps to prevent the loss of electrolyte with aircraft attitude changes. These things haven’t changed much in the past four decades.

The new technology is called absorbed glass mat (AGM) and it’s not exactly cutting-edge new, either. This technology was introduced in 1985 by Concorde Battery Company to support a military contract for a high-reliability, rugged, maintenance-free and powerful (for its size) leak-proof battery. The AGM was to have none of the shortcomings of the messy wet-cell battery or the labor-intensive nature of nickel-cadmium aircraft batteries used in heavier aircraft where high-capacity is critical. The AGM battery is also called a valve-regulated, sealed lead-acid battery (VRSLAB), a starved-electrolyte battery or a recombinant-gas (RG) battery. All of these things mean the same thing so we’ll just call them AGM batteries.

While the AGM has been well received in the marine world, there has been little market penetration in the single-engine aircraft arena, although operators of heavier aircraft have embraced the AGM battery to a larger degree. Why is this so? We’re not so sure, since the prices are competitive but the performance should be much better, thanks to higher capacity and better temperature range.

One of the purposes of our head-to-head testing is to see just how much better AGMs perform. These days, both Concorde and Gill are in the AGM battery business but Gill came to the party much later. AGM technology has continued to advance to the point that gel cells—one of the few improvements in aircraft lead-acid batteries—are now passé. Concorde stopped making gel cells in 1987.

The AGM battery is so powerful that it can serve as a replacement for high-current demand—and potentially dangerous—NiCad batteries used in heavy twins and jets. The AGM also has superior cold-weather starting performance. This is so because of the internal design, which gives this battery low internal resistance to current flow and no liquid electrolyte to thicken up at cold temperatures. It’s capable of safe, repeated high discharge and charge currents—far greater than an equivalent size wet cell.

AGM batteries are also sometimes called starved electrolyte batteries because there is no electrolyte liquid to spill. There’s just enough electrolyte to saturate the glass mats. The aviation VRSLAB uses the same lead-acid chemistry as the wet cell, but it’s internally packaged in a much more usable way. When a wet-cell battery is charging, explosive hydrogen gas is vented to the atmosphere. Conversely, the sealed AGM battery uses one-way pressure relief vent valves. It operates with a positive internal pressure, which forces the gasses produced during charging to recombine and remain within the battery, hence the term “recombinant gas.â€
 
Wow . . . now THAT'S a reply. Is that magazine a good place to start learning more about mx and upkeep? Any good books you've heard of?

Thanks again,
Doug
 
There are all sorts of books out there, Doug, along with Light Airplane Maintenance magazine, and the various home builder mags that cover skills useful on experimental as well as certificated aircraft. I'm in no way the best person to ask about that, though. I'm a mechanical klutz and would never even CONSIDER flying an aircraft I'd worked on :)

I am, however, interested in how things work, as well as approaches to common problems that are seldom addressed. For example we know that every moment our aircraft engine is sitting it's also corroding. Setting a goal of flying more is nice, but there is probably a good reason why you're not getting in, say, 100 hours or more each year. We've all considered oil and oil additives to help out. Which ones work, not based on anecdotal evidence but scientific evidence? Did you realize that hooking up an engine dehydrator (a device that blows silica dried air into the engine) for a few minutes right after you've shut the engine down can get rid of many of acidic byproducts of combustion and water vapor that would condense and collect after the engine goes from warm to cold? These are things even a non-mechanic can employ.

Thus, Aviation Consumer seems like a good value to me. The monthly issues are one thing. You can also get all the back articles online with your subscription. No...I don't get a commission.

It all depends on what you want to know, and what you feel comfortable doing, Doug.

Jonathan
 
Hi Michael! You wouldn't be the new owner of an airplane from Socorro, NM? The cream and red one??? If so you have a beautiful aircraft! How is the performance and handling??? Congrats on your new purchase!!

Pete Nadon
Aztec, NM
 
Pete,
Yes, that is the one. The performance and flying are great! Little bugs need to be worked out. Like hot starting, but love the plane.
Micheal
 
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