Upgrades, Franklin Rebuild and... II

Jonathan Baron

Jonathan Baron

New member
As I said, Larry, the Cruisair is the sweetest ride. I had to go with the 'Master, however, because I could not find a Cruisair that was right, and I finally lost patience....and *you* know all too well how much I've paid for that impatience <sigh>. The Crusairs I looked at while shopping were:

A sweet one with an aeromatic, gorgeous color scheme, original panel, but it was overpriced, especially in light of the high time Franklin under the cowl. I was too green and, thus, afraid that it would be too costly and too difficult to get a proper overhaul.

All the others: heavily modified with Viking-like panels that went so far down that I had no hope of using my long leg on the rudder system...unless I was prepared to scrap my shin every time I flew. One was so utterly modified that it didn't look like a Bellanca any longer, alas.

In retrospect, the first one I tried would have been the best choice. But that's retrospect.

Although my 'Master looks great and can cruise fast, the O-435 is one thirsty hunk of machinery. So I throttle back and cruise at the same speed as I would have in that first Cruisair. :wink:

Jonathan
 
Kevin, my prop is a 76 dia 54 pitch.
Bob, sounds nice...but I need some rationalization for 130 mph. I sure do envy your climb though!
 
Kevin:

You dont need justification. Your 14-13 is the coolest airplane ever, except maybe a 14-9 or Pacemaker or Skyrocket! Airplanes just go as fast as they go., and 130 doesnt seem so bad to me. Lots faster than the 83 mph my Chief goes.
 
Just to join in on the prop/speed/climb numbers with the Franklin 150.. My 120kt airplane, for some reason, does 116kts every time I check it. I am running a Aeromatic. With my wood sensenich(did I spell that right?) I think my overall speed was probably better, because I didn't have to reduce the throttle much coming down hill..in fact I kept it pedal to the metal at all times except when I forgot to start down..however, living here in the high desert, a climb is required to go anywhere but the poppyfields, and that was not the forte of the 66in. pitch Sensenich. Confusing the matter though, was at the time I had a kinda sick engine. one of these days I am going to have to bolt it on my new engine. My Metal prop was a disaster. It's a 72/54 McCauley. Jumps off the ground literally, but I had to reduce power in climb to keep it under redline...or climb at a very uncomfortable deck angle. It went to the redline in a hurry as well. It's for sale by the way..it comes with a beautiful Spinner too...I wouldn't recommend it. I would feel like a criminal if I sold it to a Bellanca friend. ..anybody know someone with a C170 on floats :D When I used to fly Bonanza's all the tiime...the story from the oldtimers was that the Bellanca Viking was really fast but that it had a built in headwind. The same oldtimers also said the Franklin was the smoothest engine ever built, and nothing flew like a Cruiseair..they were so right about the last part that I've always wondered about the first
Mike
 
I thoroughly enjoy these discussions and promise some detailed numbers on take-off run, climb and cruise when I get my Aeromatic installed. My McCauley was a great climber with 165hp - even on hot summer days. I'm hoping to see a bit more speed in cruise... we'll see.....

Tim
 
No need to be quite so formal :)

Figured it was a -2 as no Viking can manage those 1800-2000fpm climb rates. You also have a fast one! I hear regular reports of those rocket climb rates but rarely do I hear of 175mph cruise except when someone tosses more than stock HP into them.

Thanks for answering my question, sir!

Jonathan
 
My airplane does really go 175, but I will say that I never have seen the speeds Downer put in his manual. And my gps doesnt lie, or so they tell me.
 
Heh! My manual says the 14-19 cruises at 180 :lol:

And please don't mention book numbers to most Viking pilots. Based on my hardly extensive experience, this is the average breakdown:

Cruiseairs: 120kts
14-19 'Masters: 140kts
14-19-2s: 150kts
Non-turbo Vikings: 160kts

Due to the nature of the construction and materials employed by these flying machines, speed variance is more pronounced than in other types.

Fuel is a factor as well. Each of these aircraft have a speed sweet spot. Going faster than that requires *much* more fuel and, thus, more consideration than in years past. The Continental O-470 is far more efficient in fuel specifics (pounds per hour per horsepower - usually around half a pound per on average, .43 for the O-470) than Franklins or O-435 Lycomings. Thus, for me, 140kts is silly. I can burn three fewer gallons per hour going 130kts - 150mph - instead.

In short, these are no Mooneys. That's also the good news :wink:

Jonathan
 
comparing them to Mooneys...I had an early 60s M20C Mooney that advertised 192 mph on 180 HP and never saw anything close. Speaking of performance figures-does anyone know the takeoff roll? I have one of the slide rules that calculates roll, but need to know what the roll is at Sea Level at Standard Temp etc to calculate the rest (or if someone knows a number at other than standard conditions, I can reverse calculate what they are at standard. This is for a 14-19-2. My home field is at 5900 feet and at a 97 degree day (like we had last week) it would be nice to know the numbers.
 
PeterBoy, Yesterday was 92degrees. Grass field 2300 ft. Density altitude 2300 ft Full tanks 54 gals. Wife and me off ground in 1000 ft. My crate cruises at 130 kts 23 sq according to my GPS. Book numbers are like said BS. LYNN N9818B the crate :shock:
 
I have a 47 14-13-2 and a 74 Viking. The cruiseair has lyc 0-360 and will cruise between 140 and 150 mph and I have not seen 160 knts in the Viking, mostly 150 kts I run both engines at 25/25. The Viking is for cross country only. When you are done there is not near the satasfaction as when you park the cruiseair. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Peter:

Here are the CAA numbers - not the factory book numbers - for the 1950 14-19. Yours, of course, should benefit from having 40 additional horsepower. My 14-19 does better than this, but I have the so-called high compression pistons and I'm always below gross.

Performance
Takeoff, 50’ obstacle, 81 mph, gear down, flaps up, 2600 lbs
Alt. Temperature, degrees F
O 20 40 60 80 100
S.L. 1446 1531 1631 1740 1846 1944
2000 1728 1847 1981 2109 2240 2468
4000 2108 2280 2419 2601 2774 2790
6000 2630 2843 3074 3310 3569 3845

Landing, 50’ obstacle, 70 mph, full flaps
Alt. Temperature, degrees F
O 20 40 60 80 100
S.L. 1058 1076 1094 1113 1131 1148
2000 1090 1110 1129 1149 1168 1188
4000 1124 1146 1167 1188 1209 1231
6000 1162 1185 1208 1231 1235 1276

Although it looks great in my little text entry window, it will not look so great once it's posted. You'll have to reformat it.

Pilots who have employed 14-19s in the backcountry also use little tricks, such as popping 10-20 degrees of flaps during the roll. As Vx is 81mph IAS you should retract them before you go above 85-86mph.

Jonathan
 
My experience has been that my Cruisemaster is as fast as my Viking was, is about 70000000 lbs lighter ( feels that way at least) and a lot cheaper to run, and they put the wheels in the right place on the Cruisemaster - but I have no clue what this has to do with the original question. :?
 
Indeed but, as this thread well indicates, if ever the term, "Your mileage [or speed in this case] may vary," applies anywhere it applies here :wink:

Jonathan
 
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