what about additional fuel on a 14-19-2 ?

slackl

slackl

Member
Currently I do have 2x20 gals wing tanks and 14 (in fact - 17) gallons aux.
This is good - but only if I do fly nearby or not-so-long x-country.

Are there any options (lighter or heavier ones) to get more fuel onboard ?
Ideal solution would be a 6-6.5h endurance or about 1k mile range.

Do any of the viking tanks fit into the Cruisemaster wing (yes, I do understand I will need to open the wing and reskin after that).

Maybe there is some solution with an additional aux in baggage compartment ?

Any ideas ?
 
Viking tanks will work in a 14-19-2. Several planes have them. I think Webber or Little Red Aero did one of them so there may be good paperwork available. You have to change out the main tanks also since the aux lines run right thru the main tanks. I guess you could have the tunnels that the aux lines run thru welded into the original mains. I am speaking of the early aux wing tanks that have separate fill point from the mains. Later Vikings have the three tanks per wing all plumbed together. If you are going to do the project you might want to order the factory brackets to have the main tanks also be removable from the bottom. Then you wont have the Bellanca Killing leaky wing walk area. You make the wing walk one piece, sealed and not removable. The aux tanks are actually 4 small tanks (2 per wing) plumbed together . That way they didnt have to remove a rib to fit 17 gallons extra per wing. What part of the country are you located? I might have a bit more information if you are near the west coast. ____Grant.
 
Thank you for your detailed answer.

Me and my Cruisemaster - we are in Moscow, Russia :)
So this will be a noticeable quest for me - to get all needed data collected and done :)
 
since you are not worried about the faa, and since you have a very nose-heavy airplane, i would opt for some storage in the baggage compartment, and plumb it into the aux tank. i would make it removable. i know you are a glutton for punishment or else you wouldn't have bought a cruisemaster, but tearing into a good wing just to install some extra gas tanks seems like a bad idea to me. 20 more gallons would get you close to where you want to be. i think spruce even sells a gas tank for home builts that would fit your need, or check out summit racing, they have them in all sizes and shapes. just plumb it into the aux tank with a little electric gas pump.

with full gas it might fly like a pig, but i bet it would fly. if weight and balance won't allow it, put it where the back seat is. or on the back seat floor.

bobg (it feels today like i'm in moscow too. we have snow flurries. it's below freezing. the end is near. people are mobbing wal mart buying up all the bread and beer.)

ok i just plugged it into my spreadsheet you are in the top right corner of the envelope (it's too cold to go outside)
item wt arm moment
airplane 1700 15.25 25925
front seat 350 20 7000
3rd tank (30 gal) 180 50 9000
mains (40 gal) 240 29 6960
aux (20gal) 120 70 8400
baggage 100 84 8400
2690 65685
 
Bob, I couldn't have said it better. You are 100% on target. If you want to have more fuel buy a Viking. Then you will be really confused as to what tank your feeding until you run out of gas with fuel on board. Look at the data on FAA crashes, it's a real problem on Viking. Dash two is a nose heavy plane. Lynn the crate.
 
ok, not touching the wings as they are really a masterpiece and in immaculate condition.
Will measure possible sizes for another aux this weekend.
 
how about this one? free shipping on orders over $40. but probably not to moscow.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-293255/overview/
 
The good things about the wing aux tanks are that it doesnt effect the CG or at least very little and with the extra weight in the wings it has much less strain on the wings when pulling high Gs (I think that is true). If you dont have to deal with the FAA you can put any old tank anywhere you want, but do you want the CG dramatically changing as you fly or cluttering up the back seat. The changing or adding of wing tanks can all be done from below and doesnt ruin the pretty top, although being able to glue and seal the wing walk area is a good idea anyway. The actual Viking rear aux tank extends a bit forward under the back seat because of the CG issue, so making something larger behind that seat might be a less than safe option. It is interesting that the Viking rear aux tank can be removed or installed without cutting into the fuselage fabric, but the 14-19 aux tank is too wide and you have to cut it out the side. If your fabric and paint are real nice it might work to cut up the existing aux tank for removal and slip in (fight it in) a Viking aux tank. Just some other ways of looking at it. ____Grant.
 
I looked into this as well, since I do mostly long (>500 NM) Cross-country flights.
I found that adding in the Viking wing tanks simply wasn't worth it unless you were already rebuilding the airplane.
I looked into switching to the Viking aux tank behind the rear seat, but removing the old tank requires cutting the fabric. Again, not worth it unless already rebuilding.
I then looked into adding a removable Aux tank in the baggage compartment, but the FAA would make it impossible, and even without the FAA, the loss of baggage space was detrimental, and ability to have removable plumbing seemed too much a safety hazard.

What I actually looked into as the most cost-effective and reasonable option was to install Electronic Ignition from Electro-Air. The ignition system saves you around 1GPH at cruise, and also improves speed by 5-6 knots (using Cessna 182 numbers), which extends range by about 100NM by my calculations. The ignition system is around 5k, which is paid off in fuel savings around 1000 hours flight time, probably less with Russian avgas prices. You might be able to use the experimental system with no FAA to worry about, which is around 3k.

Good luck with the range upgrades!
-Adam
 
My Cruisemaster N9842B has the five tank system. I am not convinced of its value. (Partly because when I go cross country I take the wifeypoo with the 3 ounce bladder). The system is overly complex, and warns you not to run any tank dry. And of course my fuel guages seem better at predicting the stock market than anything else. I installed a fuel flow/ totalizer instrument which I am loving....along with a calibrated paint stirring dip stick (the best safety device ever invented for aircraft) keeps me abreast of my fuel situation. I would like to change the system so that all aux tanks have a "clicker type" transfer pump which refills the main tanks. I flew Maules for years with this system & it is simple and safe. You burn your mains down to half than turn on the x-fer pump and refill them from the aux......no valves involved. (I can't do this because of the FAA I know) . Ken
 
The newer Vikings got away from the 2 valve system that caused a lot of crashes. They simply plumbed each wings tanks together. I dont see why that could not be done with the older aux tanks. It would require some welding on the main tanks but I think it would be doable. It would actually give 1 more gallon per side, because the tunnel welded thru the mains would not be needed. I only learned about the newer system when looking at Dan Torres Viking and seeing the fuel fill farther out on the wing, I could not find the fuel fill for the mains. He then explained that they were all plumbed together and filled from the farthest outboard tank. _____Grant.
 
Spent some time digging the question.

TCDS's for the whole Bellanca family (14-13, 14-19, Viking) do list some aux fuel options.

Those that do look interesting for me are (I do remind that currently I do have 14-gals fuselage aux + 2x20 gals total in wings):

1. 14-19 fuselage aux tank option - 25 gals.

Strange it is only eligible for plain 14-19. While I was in search of a good project on the market - never seen 14-19 with that option. Have anyone seen that ?

2. 14-19 fuselage dual aux tank option - 14 + 18.5 gals

One of the most interesting possible solutions, as it adds second aux tank in my case. Strange again that according to TCDS it is not suitable for 14-19-2.
I'm lucky (rare case!) I'm out of FAA hands :)

3. 14-19-2+ (including Vikings with Continental) fuselage aux - 20 gals

Obvious solution of replacing my aux tank.

4. Outboard wing auxiliary fuel tanks. "Officially" eligible only from 14-19-3A and up. 2x17 gals.

Getting +34 gallons is tempting, but opening the wing panels (and recover/repaint afterwards) just to discover that those tanks really do not fit 14-19-2 and this (14-19-3A+) limitation is a real technical issue would be upsetting.


So.
Does anyone seen that fancy dual aux tank option in real life ? Maybe I'm lucky and there are some photos ?
This option eligible only when installed in accordance with Bellanca dwg. 18207 and 18199 and Airplane Flight Manual is revised to include pages 4 and 4(a) dated July 3, 1951

Does anyone have those drawings ?
 
If anyone has this knowledge it will probably be Grant. One of his comments above: "It is interesting that the Viking rear aux tank can be removed or installed without cutting into the fuselage fabric, but the 14-19 aux tank is too wide and you have to cut it out the side." This would be a very valuable option as we all face the possibility of a tank leaking. As I work on restoring my -2 & -3 projects I would consider this a very useful upgrade. I don't worry much about CG or gross weight problems as I seldom fly with anybody in the back seat. Let's see if Grant can give us some further details.
 
Fuel reserve maniac can do wild things while modifying 14-19-2 :)
20+20+14 in stock.

+ 18.5 second aux tank from 14-19
+ 2x17 gals mod from Viking outboard tanks....

This will make a total of 106 gals. Quite a flying tanker, but 2-seater maximum with full fuel :)
 
I dont have any information on the dual rear aux tanks. There was a thread about them on here several years back and I think the conclusion was that nobody had actually seen that set up. The reason I would think the aux wing tanks would be easier (from the faa point of view) is that there has been at least one 14-19 and one (maybe more) 14-19-2 that are already approved with those tanks. Maybe previously approved data no longer makes any difference to the feds, but it might help. Another thought that just rattled into my head. I wonder if the Slim Kidwell Cruisair aux tank that fits under the rear seat of the 14-13 series would go under the seat of a 14-19???? It is 14 gallons. My partner installed one in a Cruisair without cutting any fabric. I dont know how much difference the structure is in the 14-19-2. Because that tank is under the rear seat , rather than behind the seat, it would have less effect on CG. Just my random thoughts. _____Grant.
 
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