wing rebuid can I get orignal factory drawings?

In the latest copy of the newsletter, the centerfold was a drawing of the Cruisair wing. And, yeah, it was naked!

Robert:

Do you know the source of that drawing?

Jonathan
 
You can get them from the Smithsonian Air and Space archives, but they're awkward to order and a little pricey.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/

Scott Thomas made me a copy of the Cruisair fuselage showing how it was covered and location of the inspection holes. Very helpful chap, that :D
My favorite source is the BCC Club itself. Robert- correct me if I'm wrong, but the Club as ALL the Cruisair drawings. I hope to talk Robert into selling me a complete set one day (hint, hint) :wink:
 
After a bit more digging I found the list of drawings kept at the NASM, but you'd have to go there to have a look at them.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/findaids/bellanca/gmb_sec_21.html

Certainly there must be other sources...practical ones.

Jonathan
 
I put in an e-mail request and got an extensive list of drawings available- not only for the 14-13-2, but the Bellanca CE as well.
Lazy me didn't order any though... :|

Did you go here?

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/emailform.cfm
 
NASM is the Smithsonian Larry or, rather, part of the Smithsonian Institution - one of their many museums lining both sides of the mall in D.C.

Jonathan
 
Oops...I think I mistunderstood your question, Larry.

Having done research there, the cost is nothing if you're doing non-commercial or academic research. The catalog lots shown on the site would be open to researchers to view, but there would be a cost to have reproductions made. They usually follow a policy identical to the National Archives: if someone has paid in the past for a reproduction or copy, or if the institution itself has done so, the cost is pretty low. If you are the first one, however, the cost is both unpredictable and high.

If you make it clear (let slip) that your purpose is aircraft restoration or building you may not get far regardless of cost. You'd need an "in" probably with a cover story that you're a scale model maker. I had to do this when I was researching certain aircraft for the air combat sim I was making years ago. In my case they did not consider my research serious enough; in the former case they have legal concerns.

The National Archives doesn't care. They let me read all sorts of original patrol logs and other materials for a WWII submarine sim I was designing. I doubt they'd have much aviation material suitable for us. There's plenty of gun camera footage and such but I could not find aircraft drawings. I did find some footage of people building Luscombes on the factory floor in Trenton which *could* have been useful...if you were restoring Luscombes :)

I'd call Alexandria. Although they don't have the TC for the Cruisair line, they have the drawings for 'Masters' wings (or should). This should at least help with the fundamental structure.

Jonathan
 
Holy freedom of information act - you're right, DD and I'm full of it as usual. You *can* just order the stuff now...no creeping around, no guy letting you through the back door two hours before the museum opens...none of the crap I went through years ago.

Getting back to Larry's question: did they quote you a price, DD?

Jonathan the Chagrined
 
I made the request for box 113, folders 4, 5, and 6: drawings for the 14-12, 14-13, and 14-19. They say they'll get back to me, by US Mail, in two weeks or so. I'll post their answer here.

Jonathan
 
On the drawings for the Bellanca CE, the cost was only about $1.25 per print (xerox). HOWEVER... wait for it... you could only place an order for 9 prints at a time. Out of about 100 drawings, that was going to be some kind of mass mailing on my part. Basically wait for the first batch, send off for the second, wait for the second, send off for the third (ad nauseum).
I e-mailed an archives feller (can't remember who) and got special permission to order 20 at a time, but never did.

Only reasons for completing your request are research, modeling, or restoration. If you EVER tell them you're trying to build an airworthy replica, they'll tell you in no uncertain terms that is not a good reason for wanting the prints. They will refuse to sell them. :(
 
Yeah, I noted that earlier, DD. In my case, at the time, it was modeling...computer modeling for a computer game. This was a commercial purpose they did not approve of, hence the guy at the back door two hours before opening.

But this was *nothing* compared to the trouble I, and my team, got into during the research for the WWII submarine simulation. The only completely original WWII U.S. sub is the USS Cod in Cleveland, plus it's sitting at a dock on the water, near the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. After the Hall asked them to paint the Cod yellow, the sub folks became extremely suspicious of anyone who might have a commercial interest in the boat. I was warned how paranoid the Cod Foundation was about this. Yet, with the low budget I had, and the low profit margin on sub sim computer games, I wanted to see the Cod before I arranged payment for hard goods - photos and the like.

No matter how many times I told my guys *not* to mention that we worked for a computer game company, some dope let it slip. Despite the fact that this was simply walk-around research, I was summoned from the sub and put on the phone with a furious fellow who demanded that we stay right there until the police arrived, claiming we were engaging in theft of intellectual property.

Naturally you'd have to be an absolute imbecile to do anything other than FLEE IMMEDIATELY. Still, my team looked puzzled as I ordered them to get in the van with extreme haste, and get us out of there.

That excessively honest member of my team then mentioned that he told a docent the name of our company and our address in Virginia. We were on the Interstate when the cell phone rang. It was our CEO:

"Do not speed, and do not stop until you have left Ohio. There has been a warrant issued for your arrest."

I've heard McCartney's "Band on the Run" but this was absurd.

Later I spoke with the head of The Cod Foundation, assured him we took nothing but glances, and agreed to pay a fair price for a photo shoot. It's much easier to negotiate from another state rather than from jail.

Only recently have I returned to Ohio...nobody slapped me in irons :) No, this story is neither fiction, nor an exaggeration.

Historical research can be a tricky business :p

Jonathan
 
According to the last issue of the newsletter, the club has a library of early Bellanca plans copied by photograph from the FAA. Apparently, it takes a while to clean them up and make them legible.

(I can believe that. I obtained blueprint copies of various parts for a 'Master from the Bellanca factory back in the 80s, and sections of the blueprint copy are almost illegible. Most of the drawing can be puzzled out, but blueprint copies are not noted for high quality. They apologized for the quality, but apparently the original was not in much better shape. A photo of a blueprint copy would be even worse.)

The club says that they can supply cleaned up drawings for a "nominal fee" if they have them.

Dave York
 
Dave - Robert must be off somewhere. Perhaps, as you say, the Club has had them all along....maybe. He normally jumps in mighty fast with answers.

Then again, had he jumped in, he might have spared us all the wonderful exchanges, stories, my unintentionally treating the smartest guy here like a moron, my proving that *I* am, in fact, the moron, Dangerous Dave's design drawing quests and near misses, and my game development team on the run from the law.

Lots of drama...no drawings...yet.

I'm off to Vegas for a week, starting tomorrow, for some long and intensive seminars on e-commerce, web sh*t, and stuff. Don't you dare THINK it...but go ahead and say it...uh...perhaps I said that backwards.

Pax!

Jonathan
 
The Club has a lot of drawings that cannot be duplicated as is - they are mostly in terrible shape. We have acquired a large scanner and are digitizing what we can. Making these readable is a formidable and lengthy task - Cy is the lead on this.

We do NOT have all drawings; a set of microfiche (ask your dad :lol: ) was obtained from FAA ACO, but were next to useless. I spent months getting professional companies looking at them, but in the end there was not enough contrast to even see what they were. Yes, the FAA was there to help :? ...

We will offer a list of what we do have once a good number of restored drawings are available. I have also been working on a different approach for the past six years and will report on it if it ever comes to anything.

Jonathan: sorry for the delay. Too many tasks, too little energy. Have fun with Vegas (whoever she is :D )

Regards,
 
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