20 Gal Aux Fuselage Tank in 14-19-2

glennhake

glennhake

New member
I'm considering installing a 20 gallon aux tank. Has anyone done this? How long does it take? Any pitfalls? Any idea what a tanks is worth if I can find one?
 
Glen, a heads up all the wood around my aux tank was rotted big time. You would of never seen this until the covering was removed. Work is getting in the way of my recover I got the belly covered but have to replace all the wood around the baggage door. From looks you will be pealing covering to install that tank. LYNN :x
 
Glenn:

I don't know of a 20 gallon aux tank, but when I was shopping for my 'Master I encountered one for sale that had both the standard 15 gallon tank, plus a 25 gallon one that the owner had removed and set aside. For him the 15 gallon tank made more sense. He used his 14-19 purely for back-country adventures where weight and CG are EVERYTHING, camping gear is loaded in the back, and you (or at least he) seldom fly with full tanks. The person who ended up buying the airplane promptly swapped out the 15 for the 25 and loved it as his mission was cross county, from one conventional airport to the next. He (the new owner) told me that the swap was trivial, but that means nothing to me because NOTHING is trivial when it comes to anything remotely in this realm.

The point - yes, there is a point lurking here - is that this was the only time during two years of shopping for a 'Master, or the seven years since, that I so much as encountered the larger aux tank on any Triple Tail. Yes, I was looking at both Cruisairs and Cruisemasters. Yes, the 25 gallon tank is mentioned in the Type Certificate for the Cruisemaster (1A3). Why in blazes they are so rare is beyond me. Alexandria has heard of them but has none of them. Thus, despite whatever problems there may be in installing them or getting them approved, if you find one, Glenn, grab it. They are rare. Even if, as Lynn notes, there may be lurking perils, it seems to me that the largest obstacle, by far, is simply finding one of those damned tanks.

That said, I'm sure Dan has encountered them, and probably has some far more useful information on them than I could ever hope to provide.

Jonathan
 
It should be the standard 14 gallon tank with an extension under the rear seat adding another 6 gallons. According to the type certificate data sheet it's approved for most Cruisemasters and Vikings . Without looking real hard it looks like it might be possible to come through the cabin door with the old and get the new one in the same way. It would be neat to hear from the voice of experience.
 
Glen, I am parting out a 14 19 3 right now, and the aux tank (already sold) was hard to get out. The problem was getting the door and neck loose from the tank. Since the fuselage was not being saved we used a sawsall and cut members to do it. Looking at it after it was out we realized that the neck unscrews from the tank and it should have been easy to do. If I were to do it again I would take a piece of steel pipe that just fit inside the filler neck;weld two lugs on it that filled the openings that the cap slips down into, so that you have something to turn against;and take a big pipe wrench or something to fit a breaker bar to it and turn the neck out. This is all with the hope that 60 year old threads will give before it rips the whole thing out of the tank. The other option might be to see if the factory sells new necks and cut the old one off(fill the tank with c o 2 so we dont read about you in the papers). Once the neck is off the rest is easy. Pull out all your seats and the insulation on the tank and remove fuel lines ,the two straps that hold the tank and the sender wires.You might have to remove the rear upholstery panels,but it doesnt require any fabric cutting. Wiggle the tank forward and out. If all goes well the only fabric work will be to reseal the new filler neck so that spilled fuel will run down the drain and not down the outside of the neck into the fuselage. As far as availability of tanks;try all of the salvage yards and ask about Viking aux fuel tanks since I believe they are all the same up into the middle 70s and more than likely later than that. Dont believe that old rumor that Vikings are a bigger airframe than a Master.They are just layed out a little better inside. There has also been talk of the bulge on the 20 gallon tank being on the forward side of the tank and it is actually on the rear. The 260/Viking parts book has a picture of the tank. Save your 14 gallon tank and sell it to one of us Cruisair people.The factory actually had a service kit to install those tanks in Cruisairs but they have no record of it now. I have also seen a 14 gallon tank in a Cruisair installed according to 14 19 drawing numbers. That was a bit of a fiddle since the airframe is slightly different in that area of a 14 13. The 14 13 has more room in that area because the rear seat isnt as far back as a 14 19. Just to stir things up a little any of you Master folks that have to do wing work might consider putting Viking aux wing tanks in while your wings are being worked on. You would get 34 more gallons with minimal C.G. worries and it has been done legally before, and the best part is that the Viking main wing tanks are about 1 inch shorter and are easy to adapt to the factory way of mounting from the underside. Then you could make the top of the wing one solid piece instead of the Bellanca Killing tank covers that we have now.I Just saw Jonathans post that was sent while I was typing this (very slowly) and there is no mention of a 25 gallon tank in my copy of the type cert. There is an 18.5 that went in addition to the 14 on the straight 14 19 but all other mention refers to the 20 gal aux tank. Im sure this will get discussed in much more detail on the forum. Grant
 
It's Item 104 on the TC, but it's only listed as applicable for the 14-19, not the -2:

104. Auxiliary fuel tank 25 gal. Eligible only when installed in accordance with Bellanca dwg. 18046 and 18175
12 lb. (+77)
See NOTE 2(c) for placard required

The aux tanks for the other models are, indeed, 20 gallons.

My mistake.

Jonathan
 
Jonathan You are absolutely right about the 25 gal tank. It is listed on the bottom of the previous page on my copy of the T.C.and I had never noticed it before. Most of the people I talk to are Cruisair owners and that tank had never been mentioned. It certainly would be tough on the C.G. to have that much weight aft. That may be the tank that is reported to go forward under the rear seat, but looking at the airframe I dont see how you could get it in with or without fabric on the plane. Since it is so rare it may never be known. As far as availability of the 20 gal aux tank;they should be common in salvage yards since many Vikings have been ruined because of the same poor wing tank covers that have been the death of many of our older Bellancas. I saw a couple of Viking fuselages at Faith Aviation a few months back but I dont know if the aux tanks were still in them. Glen, You might call them at 916-368-1832. Call every salvage yard you can because prices vary greatly on Bellanca parts. Faith Aviation is in a suburb of Sacramento Ca. You Master folks have it easier than us Cruisair people, since your T.C. at least shows aux tanks. I am aware of 4 different aux tanks that have been used in Cruisairs over the years but all of the STC holders are long dead so you have to beg for a field approval. Good luck on those. Grant
 
Given that fewer than 100 14-19s were built, compared to the hundreds (or more) Cruisairs, and over a thousand Vikings, it's no wonder that the 25 gallon tank is a rarity, Grant. It's less of a CG problem in the many 14-19s that have had their batteries moved from the tail to a suitable spot under the floor of the baggage compartment. This was the belt and suspenders solution to the aluminum battery cable problem: move the battery forward and replace the cable with copper, but it's easy to understand why most original buyers opted for the 14 gallon aux tank.

I'm far from being in the market for a larger aux tank, though. The whole affair was just something I stumbled across in passing while shopping for mine. I did find some SERIOUS attempts to increase range. In some ships the owner had additional wing tanks installed during a wing recovering job. Fact is that most four seaters are flown with just one occupant aboard most of the time, and range can make a 140kt aircraft travel like a 160+kt airplane that has significantly shorter range....assuming that both are flying a long distance and both only stop when they need fuel. The terrible ergonomics of this era of airplanes, however, combined with biological factors, make this almost an academic than a practical comparison in my view. Lot of people savor capabilities they may never employ.

As an interesting aside, one well known salvage firm - Wentworth - began when a Viking lover decided he wanted to make sure he had a ready parts supply. He started buying junk Vikings, discovered that there was a business in selling salvaged parts, and went from there.

Jonathan
 
Great info Grant. BTW I called the factory - about $950 to build a new one. It didn't sound like a bulk order would help much, but I'll see what we can do if anyone else is interested. Not much luck with the salvage yards yet. Faith called back to say they didn't have any.
 
Would it be cheaper to take the tank you now have, and have a sheet metal shop weld an anterior extension to the tank and create an owner provided part for the plane??. Of course before doing any welding you have to take enormous steps to get any residual gas out of the tank including vigorous heating in case gas is trapped in a void in the original welds. Gas tanks are famous for creating havoc when welded. I had a gas tank that was oilcanning on the bottom and eventually failed on a 14-19 and prior to repair we went over it thoroughly with a hot air gun (OK, it was a hair dryer) and then left it out in the summer sun for a couple of days.
 
I have seen Viking fuselages at White Industries in Bates City, Mo, and at the salvage place in Ottawa, Kansas (I don't remember their name) in the past.

My best friend's son just started working for White - I'll ask him what they currently have.

Dave York
 
Glen,
My brother & I have just installed a 20 gal aux from an early 14-19-3.We totally stripped the airframe & was still tight installing it.
 
Hmmmm....totally stripped the fuselage to install a 20gal aux tank. That's a lot to go through for 6 more gallons of fuel :wink:
 
Looked at an aux tank at Wentworth. It looked a lot like my 14 gal tank. Finally found the placard with it saying it was 15 gallons. I've read the data sheet several times now and can't find mention of a 15 gallon tank for a Viking. My search continues.
 
My contact at White Industries in Bates City, MO, says that they have a 20 gal. tank.

He's checking on the price for me.

Dave York
 
I just got an e-mail from my buddy at White's.

The 20 gal tank is listed at $350. He says they also have several 15 gal. tanks, but only the one 20 gallon tank.

If you are interested, contact Marc Dickensheets at White Industries.

It would be nice if you would ask for him by name, since he went to the extra trouble of finding the unit for us.

Dave York
 
I've yet to have the pleasure of doing my usual "Oh...the engine is quitting...must be time to switch tanks" thing in the Bellanca, Randy. Always did it in the Luscombe, but that's a stone simple gravity feed system. Instead I watch that little fuel pressure needle...when it starts fidgeting, then I switch.
 
All you folks with Aux. tanks, remember to shut that valve when you are done using that tank or you'll be sucking air all the way to forced landing!
 
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