$20k Cruisair in Trade-A Plane-Wood Sensenich

M

meat n the seat

New member
Hi All, haven't been home hardly at all this past six months. The new forums look good. Any of you know anything about the Cruisair listed in TAP in FL? They wanted 30k, now they are losing their hangar and the price is 20K? It looks like it has a Sensenich wood prop. Any of you guys using the wood prop? The type certifiate lists a wood 74RA. Is that correct for the Franklin 165? At any rate looks like I'll be home more often and able to fly the Bellanca more often.
Pete...http://tappix.com/792789
 
Follow up to the previous post. I just looked at the Type Certificate and noted the wood prop was for the 150 h.p. Franklin only. Has any one got, or know the existance of an STC to put the wood prop on the 165?
 
I phoned and spoke to this guy a couple of weeks ago. He has never flown the airplane, got it on a trade-in for some land. I know it used to belong to a guy in NC, because when I was first looking for a Cruisair in '95, it's one I inquired about. I remembering it living outside for a number of years.

The man selling it now knows nothing about Cruisairs, hasn't even taxied it, so can't answer questions about the wing, the brakes, when it was covered, how it was covered, etc. The engine is pretty high time for the Franklin. If you look at the photos closely, the starboard wing trailing edge and the flap don't look too healthy to me.

I decided to stay away. Nice paint job, though!
 
Well thanks for the reply...I guess it was too good to be true.
Again if anyone knows of a way to install a wood prop on a 165 cruisair, I sure wood (hehe,sorry) preciate it.
 
The wood prop may be legal. (on that plane) Back in the olden days getting field approval involved having an FAA inspector fly in the equipped plane and be certain that it didn't overspeed and that it performed close to the book figures. I have heard such stories and I talked with the Dentist in Maryland who had the STC for the fixed metal prop and he indicated that was how he got his approval.
 
Pete, I looked at the picture on the ad. This is the same prop as the 150 h.p. It is exactly like mine, good cruise, but fly alone Or take off from good long asphalt runway. Maybe the paper work has been done and it is legal.

What is your e-mail. I can send you some pics of my prop to compare. it's a 74x66

Alain.
 
Alain, I have long since traded the plane with a fixed pitch metal prop that I put on to replace a broken aeromatic. That's when I called the DDS in MD who had the STC (I understand he has long since passed away)and had him sell me the right to use the STC for $5. I now have a 14-19-2 with a Hartzel (non "Y-shank") constant speed prop. I guess it was about 25 years ago.
 
Alain, Thanks...My email is nadonp@msn.com I see you are from Canada. Evidently the field approval process has taken a dump here in the U.S.. I will try anyway to get the wood prop approved. I have a McCauley fixed metal pitch prop now. I was interested in the wood prop for two reasons. 1.) Easier on the engine. 2.0) Smoothness of operation. Was it difficult getting approval for the wood on the 165 in Canada?. Thanks for the pics!
 
Pete, you are right that the TC lists the Sensenich 74RA. I checked out their web site and couldn't find it. I did find the W74RR wood prop and if you look in the specs on it, I think it may have replaced the 74RA (?) You may want to check with Sensenich to be sure.

As you know, the Cruisair TC states:

1. Propeller-Sensenich 74RA or any other fixed pitch wood propeller rated for required hp and rpm and following limits:
Static rpm at maximum permissible throttle setting:
Not over 2100, not under 2000. No additional tolerance permitted.
Diameter: Not over 74 in., not under 72.5 in.

I'd be curious to know what you found. Larry
 
Peter.. yes I guess getting field approvals has become a difficult. I'm still going to try. Thanks for your response. It doesn't make much sense to shut down the field approval process, especially for the older aircraft. A couple of years ago there were rumblings about a antique or owner maintained catagory. this would allow the installation of non-certified components, removing the aircraft from being certified. I know they have something similar in Canada. I guess that flew by the wayside.Maybe we'll all beome outlaws. Oh well press on...
Pete
 
Oh, I forgot to say that the W74RR is good for 165 hp @2800 rpm. It has an 8 hole flange 5 1/4 " BDC...sure sounds like it's set up for a Franklin 165 to me. ll
 
Thanks Larry, If you get time check out the TC. What do you think? I was looking at item 110 on the TC. This lists the reqirements for thw Franklin 165. This states "(eligible with Item 2(c), 3 and 4 propellers only)". This seems to diqualify the wood fixed prop. Do you know of anyone with a field approval or STC I could reference??? I wonder if the FAA could help me?
 
It sounds like the type certificate permits the wood prop that's on the plane as long as the static RPM is in the right range and the diameter is correct. No further FAA permission is required. (I haven't looked at the T.C., but am relying on the quote in this message thread.
 
Pete, to get mine aproved in Canada. I had to hire an engineer (Baker Aviation. they work in the US as well), he supllied me with a test flight check list, I did the test, we had to repeat the test 3 time. Like climb, cruise, static rpm at full power, how many second before wheel off the ground at gross weight of course, and any vibration at VNE!!! Yeah sure no vibration at VNE...216 M.P.H.

Then waited for few monthsfor the result, then it went to Transport Canada (our FAA) , then again, waiting...And finally a nice LSTC in an enveloppe with a bill from the engineer and one from Transport. All together came about 1500.00$. But I had no choice, was needed to complete the importation process.
:roll:
Alain
 
Peter
The type cert. does not allow the sensenich wood prop. The prop is certified for the engine, but the aircraft TC is not for that prop. I went thru all the BS with this believe me. I tried all avenues. No choice. STC or LSTC.


Alain.
 
Yuk, you are right Pete; TC 773 does say that the 165 can only be used with those props. Have you called Sensenich? It would be worth the call to see if they can offer any help. Otherwise you will need a broad minded IA or go through the Field Approval or one time STC process. Hopefully someone does have some info you can use to support you.
You really can't take chances with the improper engine/prop combination, but if the information is out there and it only takes getting some Fed to do their job, it really can be frustrating. You know, there really is a lot to be said for experimentals! LL
 
I too looked at the TC http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/24d6631e7e1c971e8525672f006979b0/$FILE/A-773.pdf It seems to be pretty clear that if the 74 inch prop meets the RPM restrictions, then it's legal. Can someone straighten me out on this??
 
In 1974, I test flew Fred Egli's freshly restored 14-13-2 N74301. with a fresh major 6A4-165B3 and a brand new Flotorp 74/66 prop from Univair. It would static about 1900RPM and full throttle in level flight at 3000' was about 2350. It was like taking off in second gear of my five speed pickup. Not much performance at the top end either. I loaned him my Aeromatic and he couldn't believe the difference in performance. Don't believe me? Call him at 925-935-7551. I flew behind this Aeromatic for about 400hrs before I went to the 180 Franklin. I have Aeromatics on the 14-12 and the Trainer. The Aeromatic is the best prop for the Cruisair and is worth the extra cost. PS. Fred bought a new Aeromatic for his Cruisair shortly after his test flight with mine.
 
Dan I believe you. I'd love an aeromatic and try to keep my ear to the ground trying to find one. I'll probably buy one form Tarver if I can scrounge up the money. He does an exellent job building the props. Its just a financial stretch at the moment. I'm not getting rich (contrary to what my employer says) flying freight. I'll get one eventually. Somehow, somewhere,someway. Thanks for your input!
 
PeterS,
Item 110 of the TC states that the 165 is approved for certain listed props. It states:

110. Engine - Franklin, 6A4-165-B3 (Negligible wt. change)
Engine limits - 2800 rpm (165 hp)
Fuel - 80 minimum octane aviation gasoline
(Eligible with Item 2(c), 3 and 4 propellers only)
Installation eligible only when original basic Franklin
6A4-150-B3 engine installation components utilized with
no changes to aircraft structure.

Strictly reading the TC, the Sensenich 74RA is approved with the 150 hp engine. You can sure try to get that thru the FAA, but I'll bet you a beer at Columbia that they would make you go for a field approval at the very least (and good luck getting that!). Maybe you can find a sympathetic IA who would sign it off as a log book entry. :roll:

There are STCs for putting McCauley and Sensenich props on the Cruisairs, but they are for metal props.
 
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