$20k Cruisair in Trade-A Plane-Wood Sensenich

OK I'm straight now! (honest, I was straight last night when i wrote my last query). I didn't note the fine print on the engine/prop requirements that indicate that prop item 1) is not OK with 165. I will chime in to say that though I never measured it, it seemed that the 200 Aeromatic gave me better performance than the fixed metal prop. In addition I had the prop with the controllable pitch (I think it's the F200-A) and if you can get that one it seems to be a step up though in all honesty I've never tried the fully automatic. The A is of course a fully automatic, but you can fine tune the prop speed by allowing a little more or less oil through a hole at the end of the crank. If your plane doesn't have the hole at the end of the crank (blocked by a plug), you're out of luck. I suspect the engines spelled out by the original TC would have the drilled cranks, but G-d knows what's happened to some of them in the last 60 years. The drawback with the contollable models was that a little reservoir at the end of the prop seemed to fill with oil every 25 hours of so and I had to either drain it or give up controllability. I worked together with my shadetree Aand P's but honing the little cylinder and changing the o ring and all the simple stuff didn't help. Perhaps I should have sent it to a real prop shop. Somewhere, I have the original (I think it was Univair) instruction book for the prop if anyone is interested. I suspect it 's the same one the club offers-explains in detail how to work with counterweights to make the prop do what it's supposed to do. Somewhere too, I have some "official" counterweights.
 
In mid 1974, I test flew Fred Egli's freshly restored Cruisair, N74301. It had a fresh major 6A4-165 B3 and a brand new wood Flottorp prop, 74/66. Static Rpm was about 1900. Full throttle in level flight at 3000' was 2350. Taking off was like starting out in second gear on my five speed pickup-not impressive. After Fred flew the airplane for a few hours, I loaned him an Aeromatic. He couldn't believe the improved performance and promptly bought his own Aeromatic from Univair. Fred has aged a bit after restoring a 14-19 and building a Lancair 4. He'd love to hear from you about the difference in performance 925-935-7551 [ PST ]. I have the Aeromatic F-200H on my 14-12-F3. It has one of the very few 150 Franklins built with the hydraulic valve and the crank to transfer oil. All 165s had this capability. I spent a lot of time with the manuals and Kent Tarver getting my prop working correctly. As a reminder, make sure you use a digital tach checker, when setting up these propellers. I find most aircraft tachs are off 50-100 rpm . I hope to have the '41 14-12 at Columbia, this year. Now, I haven't heard anyone discuss the Sensenich 'Skyblade.' There's a 165 powered 14-13-3 on our airpark, undergoing restoration, with the Skyblade. More things to chew on and discuss!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Pete:

Check ebaY once in a while for an Aeromatic with a rebuildable hub. I bought one for $130 with bad blades and an excellent hub. I hope it will save me a few $$$ when Kent Tarver rebuilds/ re-blades it. If not, oh well... :roll:
 
Pete, who are you flying for? I paid my dues with three airlines. Not many claim more than my 4700 hrs of B-99 time.......Dan
 
That's a lot of 99 time Dan. Unpressurized and in the weather. Thats flying. Who did you fly the Beech for? I spent 9 years on the BE-09 (1900) for a commuter out here in NM. I fly 727s for Astar Air Cargo, formally DHL Airways. We fly DHL freight. Its a long sordid tale... We have some freight dogs from work who enjoy this site. Again thanks for sharing your knowledge on the Cardboard Connie! Can't wait for the wind to die down, Ahhh spring time in NM. Take care Dan. Pete
 
CZ.......Cascade Airways. I also flew the 1900C...but only 900 hours, or so. Our company bought S/N 2 through S/N 9. A great airplane.
 
Several of the guys from Cascade are here. I'm sure you know them all. All great people and good sticks! Most of them still live in the NW.
 
My first post. A lurker coming out of the woodwork! I have been following the thread about what props are legal on the 165 franklin,and I thought people should know that there are 4 Aeromatics for sale on Barnstormers. One of them is a Highcruise . It is not a Bellanca prop but the Highcruise cylinder can be transfered to any other Aeromatic with only a little work. Maybe Kent Tarver can verify that? Out of 4 old Aeromatics a person would be lucky to find one or two good blades but Kent can make new ones,and 8 hole hubs are common. The Highcruise cylinder is what is hard to come up with. On Barnstormers type in Aero-matic or propellers. It wont come up under Aeromatic. I also have a proper spinner support for the Highcruise. We have a club member on the east coast who does high grade aluminum casting and maybe we could talk him into doing a few under the direct supervision of the buyers;(to keep the feds happy). There is also a club member who told me about a shop in New Zealand that can duplicate any spinner made. I will try to get an address for that shop. Now if Kent could get the 2650 red line removed, the 165s would really come to life. Lurker No Longer Grant
 
Grant, Thanks, I'll be checking into those props. I've had little luck reaching Tarver lately on the phone or by email. Thanks for your information sir. How did you become interested in the Aeromatic? What specifically is a "high cruise" hub? How does it differ from the standard 220 hub? Thanks!!!
 
The 220 hub is for 20 SAE shafts only. This is for the LYC 0-435, some Warners, the Ranger,and a few others. Most Aeromatics have a hub that is set up for SAE#1#2and#3Prop hubs. #1 is small shaft contintental. #2 is most Lycoming and #3 is Franklin and ContinentalC-145and O-300A
 
When I said the Hicruise cylinder could be used on any Aeromatic I was thinking of the F200 hub used on the Cruisair. I dont know if the F220 hub uses the same cylinder. The cylinder takes the place of the plate on the front of the prop which holds the adjustment shims in place. It gets its oil from a small tube which runs externally to the base of the hub. The crank must be what is called a drilled crank and the motor must have an oil control valve. Its only purpose is at high altitude when you lose rpm due to lower manifold pressure you can push the prop control in and flatten the pitch to get your rpm (power) back up. I really dont know if it is worth the trouble, but if the feds say you need it for the 165 then it may be easier than arguing with them. There is a metal prop STC floating around for the 165,but the holder is long since dead. Larry Lowenkron knows about that STC. We should start a thread on old STCs since most holders have long since flown west,and there is no one to give written permission to the feds. I will soon test a method of getting complete STC information from the feds but it still wont get the permission letter from the registered holder. Enough for tonight Grant
 
Grant is on the right track as far as explaining the 'H' model hub. With some limited experience with that hub, I doubt I could recommend much extra cost for the assembly, as it seems to take more maintenance. If one were to spend a lot of hours above 8000 feet, where a Cruisair performs best, it might be beneficial. OK. lets get into the Sensenich 'SKYBLADE.' Google that up, boys!
 
I want one of those single blade jobs with the counterbalance for the other blade. Saw it in a movie. Talk about peculiar! :?
 
The theory was - and, no, I'm not kidding Dave - that having one blade would reduce prop drag, even though that violates every particle of common sense regarding physics.

Single bladed props do, however, have a useful application in some models of motorgliders I've seen. Their size makes them easy to stash in those tightly packed fold away engine and prop packages that you can deploy or retract, like landing gear, in some of the fancier models.

Jonathan
 
I had an H model aeromatic and quite liked it. It was the best of all worlds. It was automatic, but you could fine tune for better climb or speed as the case may be. Mine seemed to ooze oil into the front cylinder though and every 30 hours I had to open the cylinder and drain the oil. Tried changing the o-ring and polishing the cylinder by hand with very fine hand paste, but I think it needed the touch of a real machine shop to prevent the little leak that would eventually decrease its responsiveness (until one removed the eight or so little screws on the front of the cylinder and removed the 1-2 ounces of oil that was the cause of the problem).
 
That exact proceedure is in the Aeromatic Field Service manual, which is not common. The single blade prop was developed by Everel, who originally developed the Aeromatic.
 
Somewhere I have the manual for a aeromatic when Univair had the patent. If anyone is deperate for it, I might be able to find it. It explains basic setup etc. I also have some "official" counterweights which are also located "somewhere" if again someone is deperate for authenticity.
 
The Club has the Aeromatic Manuals: B1-021 Operator Manual and B21-031 Overhaul Manual. See page 1 of the Publication Catalog under Cruisair.
 
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