Advice?

G

guzziduck

New member
Hi, this is the cropdusting wannabe 49 yr. old douche bag kid (thanks Johnathon, nobody has called me kid for a couple of decades). The fellow from Michagan with the Cruisair managed to get a ferry permit and will bring it to Webber's in Alex. MN tomorrow for a prebuy inspection. The deal looks awful good and that scares me some, everything that I ask him about, that in my mind would cause me to not wish to purchase the aircraft ( AD compliance, condition of various components etc.) he tells me is taken care of and in good shape. Today I learned that he does not have a title, just a bill of sale. How big a problem is this? Any other advice to avoid the whole hanger queen thing? Thanks, Richard
 
geez, after I get the inspection lined up , the cashiers check, and return transportaion looked at the owner decided that he doesn't want to fly the plane to Alex anyway, says he doesn't trust his piloting skills. Mabee it's a sign. Rich
 
This doesn't pass my "smell" test because if he really wants to get it to Webers, there are lots of people who would fly it there for a nominal fee. I think there is more to the story than his uncertain pilot skills.
Gary
 
I wouldn't touch it with out a clean title. I know that is some times a problem with older planes, but do you really need to invest $ in a plane and then have a title issue surface in the future. I think Gary is also on to something. Just doesn't sound right. Larry
 
The FAA has a website (FAA.gov) where you can input the "N" number and the registered owner will be indicated.....If it is not your guy you have a problem....if it is him, well, a FAA bill of sale is how airplanes pass between owners. Planebones
 
I don't know for all states but in Texas airplanes are not titled. FAA bill of sale is all that is needed. Have AOPA or EAA do a search for leans . Cheap insurance.
 
Ditto the last two entries from bones and Sills. There is no title issued for aircraft. The FAA. states on the bill of sale form that they do not get involved in ownership issues. A chain of ownership is important and perhaps a 'title search' could be done to make sure there are no liens.
 
I agree with all of the above. I don't know of any state that requires aircraft titles. Guess what I should have said is that I would NEVER buy a plane without a title search, and that no money would change hands until any questionable title issues were resolved. I don't think that the FAA data base would show encumbrances on the title. Larry
 
You can order an disk from the FAA for I think $5.00 that will give the history of the aircraft. BUT I think in this case I would probably have AOPA
do a certified search. It may save some legal fee's.
 
Did check with AOPA and the correct owner and serial number comes up. The owner assures me that there are no liens but think I'll check anyway. Webers are possibly going to MI and may be able to do an inspection there.We'll see what happens. Hey Gary what part of MN are you in ? I'm in the SW corner. Thanks for the advice guys, Rich
 
By all means get a title search. There may be liens on the plane that you don't know about. Bought a plane with a lien once and as part of the purchace deal I made certain that the lien was taken care of. Unfortunately the assurances from the bank that the lien was satisfied was not enough. The bank did not release the lien from the FAA and years later, when I tried to get them to release the lien, it turned out that they gone out of business, so there was no easy (legal) way to release the lien. Fortunately the next buyer didn't do a search, and years later when he wanted to sell it, he asked for my help. My suggestion was to counterfeit the release to the FAA. No one would ever charge him with fraud. The long and short of it is liens make plane ownership problematic-make sure everything is taken care of. The lien search on my Bellanca indicates that there is no indication of how the plane passed from the ownership of Northern Aircraft to Bellanca Aircraft. I am willing to live with that one. There are many companies doing lien searches (why we can't do it personally online is beyond me, but getting one is a must-do item
 
Ditto to all :by all means get the AOPA title search as it is money well spent. You just might be dealing with Flim Flam Man and YOU will pay the price. Lynn the crate flies on :D
 
Hi Gary, I live near Brewster,which is about 6 mi. NE of Worthington on hwy. 60. Looking more for a flyer than a fixxer, but will listen to everything. Rich
 
Well the AOPA report came back showing ownership as it was supposed to be, and no liens. The 337 report seemed like kind of waste though, fair bit of the pages illegible and not alot of info, though did see some old damage that I was unaware of.
Rich
 
Richard:

Seems we got off on the title search subject - an extremely IMPORTANT SUBJECT - but I'm still hung up on this business of the owner not feeling up to getting the airplane to a place that can perform a proper inspection. Getting it there is not the issue in my mind; the owner not flying it, or feeling comfortable doing so is the telling detail. This says hangar queen to me. There are plenty of fine examples of solid Cruisairs for sale. Larry's comes first to mind. Sounds to me like you need to go easy on the purchase price though. A hangar queen, however, will end up costing you at least twice what buying an obviously fine example will. I'm being conservative here...3x...4x might be more likely. I will not provide the multiplier of my learning experience. Of course the term "learning experience" is just another way of saying "I suffered...oh, how I suffered." I wouldn't wish that on anyone, even a douchebag kid :lol: :lol: :lol:

Let's pick up on Monty's suggestion: get the records. Monty's smart. Just look at his face: the face of seasoned, kind fellow, who you just KNOW has your best interests at heart. Plus, he's not working on commission.

Also, look HARD at the logs, and not just for the obvious "Replaced left wing, right wing, landing gear, underwear...aircraft returned to service owning to this gun the owner is holding to my head," sorts of things. Check the tach readings between annuals to get the number of hours it's been flown each year. Ten hours....fifteen...zero...BAD. Also, NEVER TRUST COMPRESSION CHECKS. As seasoned cat skinners will tell you, there are plenty of ways to deprive those miserable creatures of their fur, and there are just as many ways to foul up a compression check and have it come out absurdly high. Honest mistakes usually. Or bribes. Or, as was the case with my Luscombe, they stuck high readings in there to get the damned thing out of their shop so they could work on more potentially profitable flying machines.

Finally, in the middle of insulting you for no good reason at all, I might have missed something like...can you take this airplane for a test flight? If you can't, then it's something we in aviation call a PROJECT. If you can then you must, if only to get the sheer joy of flying the sweetest handling of all the Triple Tails, and nothing flies a sweetly or as delightfully as a Triple Tail...but you know that.

Okay, I'll be serious for a moment, if vague. Reading this saga and seeing you on the verge of that make/break decision over lo these many posts, I've got this really bad feeling. If you've not got the 30k handy (never a handy sum) to get a fine Cruisair, then get something that will get you, dependably, into the air as often as you can find or make time to fly. Had I begun with my Cruisemaster, I would not be a pilot today. I began with a Luscombe: nice, simple, easy to evaluate aircraft. There are plenty of those and they go by many names like Champs, Cessna 140s, 120s and even the aforementioned Luscombes. I know you've heard this before, and from better and more experienced pilots than me, but I feel compelled to say it yet again....and again.

Then all you have to do is find a decent artist - those guys who paint all those weird skulls and stuff on motorcycles are plentiful and some are even skilled - to airbrush a nice, cursive Douchebag on the nose for you. If you add an exclamation mark then people may think you're calling THEM a douchebag. This is fine. Becoming a fine aviator is, after all, a solitary quest.

Jonathan
 
OK, OK, I think we've both got lay off the douche bag thing. I agree about the deal seeming funny. Talked to the guy that inspected the plane for the ferry permit. He said that although the plane seemed sound to him,he agreed that it should have a very close inspection, and was not as good as the photos indicated. As far as the money thing goes, I'm
Scotch by heritage and love a good deal, this looked too good to be true and I pretty sure it is. The owner has not contacted me after he declined to come here and I believe I'll leave it at that. Thanks to all for the help, not being experienced in these matters is why I joined this group to get advice from those much more knowledgable than myself. Thanks again, Rich
 
What do you mean by "good deal"? What is he asking for it? As far as I can see most Crusairs are pretty good deals and are worth more than what they are selling for. That's why I bought mine. It was too much airplane to pass up for the price. Heck, I just received outstanding Bellanca this year at OSH and possibly could be talked out of it for 34K and for that price it is a lot of airplane.

Kevin
 
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