Aeromatic Spinners

jeffw

jeffw

New member
Just one spinner to fit onto a Cruisair with a Franklin and Aeromatic would be a godsend that at least a few dozen folks would go to war over.

Kent Tarver recently forwarded me a set of the original Aeromatic spinner shop drawings; one of the spinners was the typical one you may see on a Cruisair with the center post that extends though the nose of the spinner, and the other is one that evidently went on Swifts which has a separate front-of-the-prop thimble-like centering plate.

When I purchased an Aeromatic prop from Kent about 8 years ago I was lucky to find two spinners for sale, I think it was L Lowenkron, and I bought both of them. I put the one that appeared to be #2 because the gauge of the spinner aluminum was thinnest and the edge mounting holes at the prop reliefs had welded reinforcements due to repair of some small cracks; and I saved the other for backup. So, recently the installed spinner's cracks have reappeared and basically turned it into a planter vase. I'll salvage the nose center backing plate and plant petunias.

So, the backup spinner is fixed up - a few minor dents smoothed out, primed, painted and ready to install on it's backing plate. And, the aluminum gauge is a good bit thicker - around 0.06". Plus the prop openings are roll-flanged for extra strength. Apparently, it is the much sturdier of the two spinners.

Here's the wrap up to this topic > There has to be at least a few dozen Cruisair/Franklin/Aeromatic owners in the world who strongly desire a nice new Aeromatic spinner, either immediately or for a future need.

Someone - somewhere must know of the only one or the couple of spinner manufacturing shops that may have made these or would have the means and skills to make new ones now from the old shop drawings. I did inquire with the fella in Australia who has this great youtube video of spinning aluminum spinners, and makes nice spinners for Vans RV's and others > said he couldn't help.

If there is a possible manufacturing source, can we compile a list of potential buyers to see if it's feasible to get anyone to go into a small production run? even if it stretches out over some time?

wha-da-ya think? If interested - pipe up, and if you know of a possible source - investigate it.
 
A friend recently made a carbon fiber spinner for an O-200 on his KR-2S. Works very well but don't think he'd make them for a cert. aircraft. Is this something that would fall under an owner produced part? non-structural fairing? Maybe you can produce a plug and build one!
 
Jeff, I am not sure who you talked to in Australia, but an friend with a Bellanca had Cummins Spinners in Australia do a spinner for a fixed pitch prop, and after a small adjustment it turned out fine. I suspect the best way to do it would be to find an old " beyond repair" spinner, and send it along with the drawings to be produced under the direction of the owner. Maybe you talked to Cummins and they have changed. I think it would easily fall under OWNER PRODUCED. Just my thoughts. _____Grant.
 
Interesting comments, and thread.

Not the most robust of the stuff on our geese, yeah.. they are reaching their "sell by date", fast.
 
I have sent Allan at Cummins Spinners a few emails to let him know of the plans I have and the go-by spinner that could help, and am on bended knee with a request for help. He has the skills and the tools.

I offered the info about AC 20-62 and AC 23-27, which he may already be aware of - so I'll wait and see now.

I viewed the link about Jeff's build of a carbon fiber reinforced spinner that he constructed. What a nice job! but what a job, that looked like lot's of work and specific skills involved. I'd be suprised if that was the first one of those that he has done.
 
Jeff, if you were asking Cummins about a production run of spinners (even a small run) they may say no since they probably are aware of PMA requirments here in USA, but a single unit would be more likely to fit under owner produced rules. This is an assumption on my part, but a possibility. Just my thoughts. ______Grant.
 
Does the owner directed allowance defined by the AC's allow separate owners to request a spinner? may be a gray area, if that exists in government/FAA vocabulary.
 
Maybe an I.A. can kick in here, but I have followed the Stinson Yahoo group for years, just for the Franklin information, and as I understand it , a number of people have ordered oil coolers from Pacific Oil Cooler, and installed them under Owner produced parts. I believe they were all ordered individually. The wording on the order form probably will make or break the legality of it, but I dont think that any multiple order would qualify. I think there was a long thread on owner produced parts here on our forum a year or two ago. Maybe someone can revive that thread. Again, just my thoughts. _____Grant.
 
Seems to me that as long as each owner "is involved..." in the production of the part, and it is built IAW the original specs it would qualify. Also, would be up to each IA to approve it. You know how (in)consistent the FSDOs are at approving things, so work with your IA.
Jeff, it your guy doesn't come through, I can see if the people I talked to a hundred years ago are still in business and willing to build them. Sorry that the spinner cracked, but I hope you got a lot of hours out of it. It would serve as a great plug for a new one along with the drawings.
Larry
 
Larry, I probably got about 200 hours out of the lighter gauge spinner (0.041 +/-) on the aeromatic, since it had been repaired once I think that was pretty good. For my own memory check, was it you that sold me these about 8 or 9 years ago, I lost track.

The other spinner, heavier gauge (measured it at 0.078" +/-), no repairs and the prop reliefs flanged inward about 1/2" - will likely do well. I smoothed out a few minor dents, removed and cleaned up the interface of and reinstalled the front centering bushing. I balanced the prop/spinner combination to 0.05 IPS which will help the life if the spinner considerably.

If you do have some old contact information that points in any directions that might uncover a manufacturing source pass it on and i'll help do the searching.
 
Jeff, do the drawings show the inward flange or a doubler around the cutout for the blades? I have seen both, and I suspect that the ones with the doubler are made from blanks supplied by Univair or some other outfit. My own spinner has the doubler rather than the flange. I will try to measure the thickness this week. I assume the drawings Kent sent you also give the thickness. It would be interesting to see what the originals were. Always interested in Aeromatics!!! _____Grant.
 
It has been my experience that the backplate on the Aeromatic spinners will crack before the spinner itself. The cause is the "free floating" of the assembly on the crankshaft flange. The crack will follow the circumference of the flange. I'll bet I've repaired a half dozen backplates by riveting doublers. The backplates were too thin at manufacture. I always use 5052H32 for the two plates that sandwich the old backplate.
Dan
 
I was encouraged to see Cy Galley's publishing of the original aeromatic spinner drawing in the Vol 27 Num 1 issue of B-C Contact! (Jan 2017). Could this be another start of a movement to get some spinners manufactured. This drawing has the reinforcing plate around the spinner shell's prop hole reliefs, and the aluminum gauge for the spinner specified as 0.040".

I had this same spinner type on my 14-13-2 with a Kent Tarver Aeromatic for the past 9 years and it finally developed cracks around the spinner-to-back plate near two of the attach screw holes near the propeller cutouts. CLARIFY >> It was the spinner shell that developed the cracks - one each side at the propeller cutouts near the attach screws to the back-plate, the back-plate did not crack. <<

Showed it to a couple of folks that said the cracks were not repairable. I had in reserve a serviceable replacement spinner that I restored by cleaning up, smoothing out some small dents, and repainting. This replacement does not have the reinforcing plates at the propeller cutouts, the cutouts are flanged inward into the spinner shell by around 5/8", and the gauge of the spinner shell is right at 0.070" (nice and stout).

Over the past few years I have searched for and contacted a few spinner manufacturers. The one in Canada that makes composite spinners, they said they could not provide an Aeromatic spinner for the Bellanca. I also communicated with Allan Barton in Australia, no joy there either; he has a video of him turning an aluminum spinner for RV's at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrTDBW6q7Xg - interesting to watch.

I have discussed this with a friend of mine who did the restoration of Triple Tree Aerodrome's Spartan Executive, including almost all of the aluminum cowling and wing root fairings, plus - english wheel work. He said that forming an aluminum spinner on an english wheel would not be appropriate, it would need to be spun or press formed.

Is anyone actively pursuing newly manufactured Aeromatic spinners for the Bellanca? I would sign up for at least two of them, preferably if they could be the 0.070" gauge, flanged versions.
 
This last summer I had a spinner constructed for my Bellanca CH. It is not the same shape or size as the Franklin/Aeromatic. It came with a front and rear bulkhead/Spinner ring.It was very expensive! How about $4K! Now if I wanted a half dozen or more of these assemblies, the price would be less. Much of the cost is fabricating the tooling to spin the aluminum. Once this is done, the labor and materials are much less.
I'll bet that with a run of 6-10 the price would still be every bit of $1,000....or more.
One BIG mistake I noticed in the original blueprint was the heat treating of the "spinner ring." This is precisely the problem that leads to the cracking around the prop flange that I've seen in most of these parts.
Dan
 
Dan,

I would be willing to sign up for two spinners w/ back plates >> If we could get the spinner formed from the heavier material and the propeller cutouts were the flanged type, and if there were a dozen or so others who would join-up for a new spinner for an Aeromatic on a Cruisair.

Does the majority of the preparation tooling consist of creating the form-work (mold) that the spinner is formed to?

What shop did you find that did your spinner and that may be able to do the work. Would they be approachable to consider making the spinners?

I would take on the task trying to arrange the work and setup the order. I would post the information to see if there was enough interest to get them done.

I think it would be worth trying to see if there was enough interest.
 
The spinning was done very locally to me by a one man shop. He has done lots of custom work for the antique airplane group here. I know he cares not about a paper trail.
He insisted on making the forms used in the spinning out of phenolic, which is the next best material to metal. I had to front the cost...and it was expensive for phenolic and half the labor before he'd start.
The aluminum is the cheapest part of the program. He'd had great success with 6061-0 and that's what we used....065 thickness for all the three parts.
So there you go. Three forms contructed, three parts made....$4k please. But I retained the tooling for all the other CH owners who want more....hahahaha.
This is a doable project if the production can spread the cost out six or more ways. As far a paperwork is concerned, I'd just say this is a NOS part and let it be at that. If you're a paperwork junkie, you can note an
"owner produced part."
About 15 years ago, with factory blueprints in hand, I had 7 KenRoyce propeller hubs made in a local machine shop. They were in short supply for me and other antiquers operating that engine. They cost $750
each. I kept two, the others are out there flying. No paperwork generated, none was requested. No propeller hub....no fly!
Dan
 
Jeff, were the drawings in the January Contact the same as what Kent sent to you? In looking at the drawing it appears to me that it shows cutouts with doubler plates. Maybe it is just my way of looking at it? I am going to send some photos of the support for the spinner on a High Cruise. Since I can send photos with emails, but never have figured out how to add them to these posts, I will send them to Larry L and he can post them. I havent told Larry yet, but he loves Bellancas and will send them along. ____Grant.
 
Grant, yes - same drawing. I do not have the drawings for the spinner that has the flanged propeller openings. The other spinner drawings that I have I can't find right now but I do not believe that that spinner is for the Bellanca (I will continue to look for them).
 
Kent once told me that the Aeromatic company did not make the spinners. That was in response to showing him the Hi-Cruise support. Maybe that accounts for the flanged as opposed to doubler spinners. it is a guess on my part. ____Grant.
 
Well, I have two original Bellanca/Aeromatic spinners and both of them have spotwelded doublers inside.
I also have a Univair built Aeromatic spinner that has neither doubler or "flange." I'm sure Bellanca had their spinners contracted out and built to their blueprint.....unless they had their own in house spinning shop....
not likely.
Dan
 
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