Engine options

M

Mainebushpilot

New member
Good afternoon everyone,

New to the forums here and looking for an engine or engine options for my 14-13 Cruisair. Ideally I was hoping someone would have insight towards an engine that was not a Franklin and had paperwork supporting this. Something a little more contemporary and parts available. Any help is appreciated.

Jeremy
 
There are STC's floating around for a 180hp franklin conversion with C/S, as well as the 180 lycoming with C/S.
Someone knows where they are, but It is a bit of of a process to get the conversion approved.
Good luck!

P.S. why would you want anything but abut a franklin??
-Adam
 
There is an STC for installing a "Franklin Engine 6A-335-B, McCauley propeller 2A31C21/84S-8 with Woodward governor 201453, and Firestone DFA-180 wheel assembly and CFA-252 brake assembly or equivalent. " The ownership of the STC is, I believe the defunct Franklin Engine Co. in Colorado. There are also numerous one time STCs and even some old field approvals for installation of Lyc O-360s. There are even some insallations of Lyc O435. My experience years ago trying to install an O360 really turned out to be economically unfeasible even doing it all myself when you consider resale vs cost of engine and prop and DER.
'Sled is right...why not a Franklin? They really are great engines once you learn about them!
 
I would love a Franklin and was gunning hard for one but it seems every time I mention the name mechanics shudder at the words. I guess I haven't heard too many positive reviews for them, other than when they run they sum smooth. As far as a 360 STC, where do I find it? I've scavenged the STC list from the FAA and have had no luck.
 
Crap mechanics if you ask me..
Fantastic running, easy starting, relatively effecient motors.
Plenty of support and parts still available
-Adam

-Just my 2 cents.. which may be used to purchase any franklin product
 
There is no multiple STC for the O-360 Lycoming. There have been several field approvals throughout the years. As LL said, all it takes is desire, time and money.
Stay far away from mechanics who know nothing and bad mouth a product they have never dealt with.
Obtain all the manuals and information on the Franklin you can....before ANYONE picks up a wrench.
Seek others out who have experience or are willing to learn. You, yourself,may end up being the best
mechanic for your airplane........
Dan
 
In theory at least, the Franklin 180 STC would be the easiest and best overall performer, but there are several problems with it. Number 1 is that the 6A-335B is as rare as hens teeth, and the prop listed in the STC is obsolete, and the STC itself has disappeared into never never land. There were only (I think) 13 planes approved under the 180 STC. I have a basket case, but no engine and I believe that Dan C has one and I know of one sitting for 10 years that is coming up for sale sometime in the future. I think the 180 is the best engine that Franklin made and have sent numerous E-mails to Southern Aero, trying to convince the new owners of the Franklin TC that, the 180 is the first engine they should produce since they are already approved in Stinsons, Bellancas, Piper Apaches, etc, but no, they want to build a new engine that is not approved for anything. Sometimes dollars and cents dont work out to be dollars and sense. ____Grant.
 
The "B" engine was a Cessna retrofit engine and there are a few out there in older 172 and 175 airplanes.
It has the same mount pattern as the 220/215, 6A-350 series. It will not fit on a Bellanca or Stinson
engine mount. The "B1" will fit....but rarer yet.
We have a Stinson owner battling the fit of a B engine in his airplane. I warned the mechanic involved about the "issue" before the purchase. They'll be scratching their heads for a while....hahaha.
I overcame the fit problem with the B engine in my Cruisair back in the 70s. The Debs STC left a lot
to your imagination, but kept the paperwork hassle to a minimum.
Dan
 
I got the B and B1 mixed up, but my (limited) understanding of the difference is simply the mounting legs that bolt on the side of the case are narrower in the B1 than the B. I also think there is a slight height difference in the carb zone, but both are bolt on changes if you can find the rare narrow mount legs. Somewhere I have the part numbers for the narrow mount legs, but they are almost never seen. The narrow legs would also fit onto a 220, and then it would drop right into a 150/165 mount. I may be going to help with an annual on a 180 Franklin powered Cruisair next month and I will take lots of photos and see if I can verify part numbers. Dan, please correct me if I am wrong on the difference between the B and B1. _____Grant.
 
Good evening all,

Looking for Franklin 150 Parts and or a franklin 150 that is ready to go to drop in my Cruisair. Trying to keep it affordable.

Cheers,

J
 
Possibly the 165 Franklin would suit your needs considering your username; the extra 15 HP is a 10% boost and it is really helpful. I made the switch a few years back and am very happy with the results, mostly TO and climb performance with a slight increase (less than 10Kts) in cruise. Just be aware that there aren't any Bellanca drawings for the upgrade even though it was a factory approved engine! I also have found that moderate leaning (with the help of a dual EGT gauge) has me burning only about .5 gph more than my 150 burned at 2500 and 2600 rpm. It also keeps the original lines of the Cruisair cowling. My son is a delightful tyrant about any mod I suggest that takes away from the aircraft "being a Cruisair".

I'd suggest you contact some of the Franklin shops to see if they know of any engines available for the airplane. Be prepared to have your engine mount modified to accept the bigger engine; a few more $$$$$. A Bedford style 60 amp alternator while you're there would be a boon too. Here are a few names of places I've found to be helpful and Franklin knowledgable. There are certainly many more that I haven't included but that's simply because this list has worked well for me over 29 years of Franklins:
Robert Still Southern Aero 336-476-9094
Susan Prall Franklin Engine Co 903-626-5210
Bruce Kown Classic Are, Inc 770-386-7435
John (?) Lil Red Aero 308-234-1635

Have fun.
 
Also look up Chris a Airwork LLC 251-212-0114
He is who susan is using for overhauls now a days and his work is beautiful!
 
Scott, Can you provide details on the engine mount modification for the 165 installation? Talking to Grant, it seems that the aft intake tubes need to be "dented" to clear the mount. How else might you do the installation withOUT deforming the tubes? Any drawings or photos available? As recall, since the 165 is on the TCDS, it is a minor alteration, but changing the engine mount is a major alteration. Thanks!
Larry
 
LL,
The only thing you have to do to a stock "150" engine mount to install the 165 is dish out the top center third
of the rectangular cross tube, about 3/16" for the larger diameter generator.
Dan
 
LL, did I send you the 337 with the drawing of the dip in the motor mount cross piece? I know I had a good drawing from an approved 337, but it burned up last year. Of all of the CDs, micro fitchs, paper records I used to have, there was only one that mentioned the motor mount even though many had 165s in them. The only other difference that I can think off is the air intake. I have the intake ducting from the nose bowl back to the carb with the heat box. I suspect it was a factory thing but I dont know. If I email you photos, maybe you could post them (I dont know how) and help someone else out down the line? Because many of us have bits and pieces of information that may no longer be available, I think it would be a good idea to try to get some sort of central record keeping for all Cruisairs, not just club members, since many of us have bought planes from non-club members and information is vital to all. One other point is (I may be wrong) that with the 3 year registration rule, many unused Cruisairs are dropping off of the registry and I think that you can no longer pull CDs for those planes. Some non-expiring record keeping from enthusiasts might save information that would otherwise be lost. I am rambling now. I need more coffee. _____Grant.
 
Larry,
My biggest problem was that my engine mount already had a "dish" cut/welded into it for the cross member across the rear brace even though there was a 150 HP engine in the plane. I had it NDTd and re-certified for just under $1,000 and only during installation found out the arc go the cut out was about 3/16th too shallow. I had to buy another engine mount that had already proved it would accept the 165 HP! I'm still sitting on that freshly certified mount with a release and 337!
Other than that it wasn't too bad fitting it in. The intakes on the engine I bought already had the indentations in the rear intake elbows but the fit was still tight with much tweaking & swearing at the lack of working room. Typical "I can see it OR I can touch it" problems.
 
Tailwheel, I am surprised that the cutout was too shallow. I have seen several 25 amp generators on stock (uncut) 150 mounts with just the bottom of the band around the bigger generator, ground flat. Almost no clearance and certainly not legal, but I would not think it would take much of a dip to get clearance. Could you give a measurement of the cutout so that someone else doesnt do the mod and not have it work. I have a couple of modified mounts at my ranch. I will try to measure them and compare. I will let everybody know what I find. _____Grant.
 
I went to my store room and measured a mount that has a 165 sitting in it. It was a little difficult to get the caliper in a good position, but the measurements are very close. The flat tube that runs under the generator is 1.05". The thickness at the lowered area is 0.840". It might be a little thinner but hard to measure at a weld joint. Close but not exact. Approx 0.160 inch dip. That is not a lot, but it gave the 25 amp generator enough room. I will be up at the ranch in a few days and try to measure a couple of more. I hope this helps someone. ____Grant.
 
Thanks all for the information. My existing 25 amp gen fits w/barely enough clearance on my existing 150 withOUT the indent on the cross piece. It fit better after I installed new motor mount rubbers. Still not a lot of clearance so I intend to change the whole motor mount when I finally(?!) replace the engine. Guess I will have to live with denting the air intake to the carb if that's what it takes...I just hate to do that and I'm sure I will reinvent the wheel trying to find other ways to install it w/o denting it. LL
 
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