New Member Intro

R

Rodney

New member
Hello all! New member here posting an intro. I'm new to plane ownership and to your forum/club. I look forward to becoming a part of this group, your resources, and to contributing when able. I learned to fly back in high school, went off to college and the military, and am now finally fulfilling the dream of every pilot to own a private plane and fly at will, or at least as fuel allows... In my search and desire to balance bang-for-the-buck with a craft that suits personality, I am now the proud new owner of a 1950 Cruisemaster, 0435/190hp. I actually bought the plane 6 months ago, but was only able to retrieve it last week. I flew 1000nm from Minnesota to west Texas, around 8 hours flight time. Cruised like a dream, even with 20+ knots in the face most of the way. I haven't been in small GA planes in many years so I've some re-learning to do, especially landing this thing. After I get a little more time with her and go through your archives, I'll ask a few questions. Remember, I'm a newbie, 'no dumb questions' right.........? Thanks!
Rodney
 
Well, hello again, Rodney!

Did you buy your airplane from a guy named Gunderson? Some fellow by that name, or a name close to it, has been trying to sell his 14-19 for some time...I hope that means you got a good deal :)

Man, I envy you guys who buy these, fly them away, and they just work...wish I could experience that :roll:

Jonathan
 
No, fella's name was Spanier. His plane has not been advertised in close to a year, and was not advertised extensively prior to that. I think I picked it up on Barnstormers initially, but I don't really remember. I was in contact a long time with him on this deal, waiting and hoping for the timing to work out. He was not in a big rush to sell. Not a perfect plane, but very solid and capable. Good baseline from which to begin. More details to follow as we move along and I get to know the craft a little better.

BTW, had quite a surprise at 10pm upon arrival at DRT to discover that I had somehow overlooked the tail area dimension on my t-hangar, the Cruisemaster did not fit! Tail too wide. Have her stuffed in the FBO community hangar until I can acquire another. The lessons have begun right away.....
 
Oh - Mark's airplane! He used to post on this forum and he sent me some wonderful photos of the 'Master you now own. They were shots taken in winter on a snow covered field. He used to fly it day and night. Thus I was surprised when he put it up for sale.

Dang, Rodney, that had to have been one narrow bottom of the T, T hangar indeed. :(

Jonathan
 
Oh I don't know if that was an inordinately narrow T. My old hangar at Daniels Field was pretty much the same. I had less than 3 inches on each side of the tail fins. Had a ramp down the middle to keep it straight when I winched it out of the hangar. Moved the ramp to my new hangar at Creswell even though I have more room. Makes it easy to move in and out with out worrying about hitting the tail. Our planes are kind of generous when it comes to tail...(hmmm, these days that seems the best I can do - I will say no more) Larry
 
Yeah, they are old hangars at Del Rio Int'l, from the 50's I think. They vary from 14-16 feet at the bottom, mine was 14 on paper, but ended up a bit less in reality over the years. I found another two hangars down that may be available, I'm workin' on it.

Mark was a great guy to work with regarding the plane deal. He kept outstanding care of it and kept everything top notch. It was obvious after meeting and flying with him that I could take it cross country without a worry. He would fly it at his airpark on the snow, and on snow covered frozen lakes up there. I'll post pics as we go along if there is a manner to do so.
 
Hi Rodney

Welcome, I am new myself, bought ours N6RJ, 14-19, s/n 2062 at the end of August flew it home from Pheonix to Dayton, Ohio.

Dan
 
While you can't post photos directly here (not yet), you can use an online service like http://www.photobucket.com and link to the pictures you put there.
Welcome to the best-kept secret in Aviation!
 
Hi, Rodney,

What is the N-number or S/N of your plane?

Mine is N6557N and S/N 2010, built in March, 1950, and, as far as I can tell, either the 4th or 5th oldest surviving 'Master. I have found many parts straight out of the 14-13 series in this early model. In fact, many Cruiseair small parts are still used in today's Viking.

I found S/N 2011 (formerly in Washington State and now in Wisconsin), but S/N 2009 sort of disappeared up into Minnesota a few years back and I haven't been able to track it down.

I'm getting ready to crank the restoration project back up (sidelined a few years ago due to 1) divorce (AIDS - Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome), 2) lack of funds (see #1) and a place to work on it (also see #1). I would like to find a 'Master somewhere relatively close so I can occasionally take a peek at how things are put together.

Welcome.

You'll find that this is a very helpful group.

Dave York
 
Dan has the hotrod 14-19. It's a 14-19 with a 14-19-2 engine, glassed wings, and lots of mod stuff. To illustrate the absurdity of speed claims by manufacturers in those days, with all its extra power and such, its cruise speed (175-180mph) is the speed Bellanca claimed for the stock 14-19.

Things are a bit different now. The claimed speeds are only 5kts of fiction, but the quoted speeds are achieved using either ludicrous power settings, or by climbing to the Flight Levels :)

Regarding what you said earlier, Rodney, there are indeed no stupid questions. There are stupid people who ask questions.

KIDDING :!: :!: :!: :!:

These are not simple aircraft to begin with, and age makes them even less simple to maintain.

Jonathan
 
Thanks all!

I don't have the S/N right away here at work, but the N# is N6556N. I'll get the other numbers and get back to you. Every bit of history I can obtain is welcomed so be sure to let me know where mine fits into your catalog. BTW, where would I find the S/N?

Interesting on the 14-13 parts being used forward.
 
Rodney:

Just go to http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_inquiry.asp

Enter your tail number and you can find that your serial number is 2009 :)

Jonathan
 
S/N is also on the data plate.

Sounds like you have the 'Master that I was trying to find. I would like to see it sometime.

If you would like to talk off line, I can be reached at york40@bellsouth.net

By the way, Joe Sills is restoring a 14-19 in Austin, at Kitty Hill airport. He has pictures of the restoration at http://www.sillsaviation.com

I was out there a couple of years ago, but every time I was able to get away from business and pop out to the airport I always seemed to miss him. I did see the project, though. At that time, the fabric had been stripped off of the fuselage and it was on sawhorses.

About the parts being used forward - when I visited the Bellanca plant in Alexandria about 10 years ago, I visited the wing shop which was downtown at that time (since moved out to the airport with the rest of the factory). Some old timers that had been there since the factory moved to Minnesota told me that they use the same wing jig on the Viking that they used on the 14-19. The only differences were the added fuel tank outboard of the landing gear and the beefed up rear spar that was needed when the main gear was moved to the rear spar during the trigear conversion.

Many of the fittings, pulleys, cables and other small parts in the Viking match the 14-19. Since there is no Parts Manual for the 14-19 series, you can often find the same parts in the Viking Parts Manual. Also, many of the small parts in the 14-13 are used in the -19s, so the -13 parts manual is sometimes helpful.

The factory can sometimes match a -13 part number to a Viking one that will work in the -19s. It also helps that their Chief Engineer, Andy Vano, owns a -19.

The major differences between the -13 and the -19 seem to be that the -19 is larger - bigger wing, bigger fuselage, bigger engine, and a hydraulic gear actuator.

The wider and taller cabin is why I got a -19 instead of a -13. My head was always jammed into the headliner in my friend's Cruiseair. In the 'Master, I have a couple of inches of headroom.


Dave York
 
When I was based at Kittie Hill, Dave, there were four 14-19s on the field. Joe was overhauling my O-435, two were in some stage of restoration or another, and John Wilder was flying the 14-19 that Joe is currently restoring.

Wilder never wanted the aircraft originally. He had a Luscombe that was devoured on the ground by a storm on his way to Osh-posh. His dad had the 'Master and willed it to John when he died. It had a fresh engine, a new prop, but tired fabric. It's becoming rare to see a 'Master that is both mechanically sound and gorgeous to behold, alas.

I was wondering, Dave, what is your fascination with the first ten or so 14-19s that were made? Just curious is all.

Jonathan
 
Joe had two at his shop when I was in Austin in '04 - the 14-19 that he was actively working on (John Wilder's) and what looked to be a 14-13 fuselage that had been covered through silver.

By the way, I liked Kitty Hill airport - it reminds me a lot of the little gravel strip in Independence, MO where I fell in love with airplanes and learned to fly. Alas, the developers kept expanding East and the airport is now gone.

Austin is also expanding toward Kitty Hill. What used to be a two lane country road heading out toward the airport was being expanded into a major 4-lane street. I fear that the developers won't be far behind.

As for why I am interested in the early 'Masters, my plane was purchased in a completely disassembled state. I have a bunch of airplane pieces in the garage and am not entirely sure how all the pieces fit together.

The factory seems to have done gradual, evolutionary changes on the design and the last of the 98 Cruisemasters that were built have some small differences from the earliest ones.

So, mainly I am trying to find planes that were built right around the same time as mine (earlier and later) so I can see how the factory put everything together.

Some of the 'Master owners have already been kind enough to let me carefully poke around their planes, measuring, making sketches, and taking pictures. One owner even notified me when his plane was opened up for an annual so I could come and see areas in the plane that were normally buttoned up and inaccessible.

I really appreciate all their assistance. This is a great bunch of guys.

Dave
 
Kittie Hill was nearly extinguished, Dave, when the road came. It was originally planned to go right through the airport. It took a lot of doing to prove that the current path was, in fact, the best one. I too fear for its future :cry:

I was based there twice, but never long enough to enjoy it fully. Harvey Field in Snohomish was wonderful and I loved it but I had to take a job back east in Charlottesville, VA. I hope to stay in one place for awhile, which is why I got out of the online multi-player computer gaming business.

Harvey Field is slated for expansion and its parallel grass runway will vanish. Things changed there after 9/11, as was the case at many airports, but the effects on the FBO linger today. As you know, GA businesses were supposed to be compensated for lost income and the cost of added security as the airlines were. At the last minute, though, the GA part was forgotten.

Harvey Field nearly went broke. Although it recovered financially it was never the same. Credit card payments were surcharged. Maintenance charges went up in a suspicious manner. My Luscombe's last annual there was two grand with no squawks, wildly incorrect compression reports (wildly high when they were, in fact, going down), and basic items - such as greasing the wheel bearings - ignored. It felt like the case of someone who went bust and was forever changed by the experience.

Perhaps Joe simply spoiled me. Whenever Joe annualed your airplane it always came out better than when it went in. Sometimes it was little things, like some velcro he put on my headset battery pack to attach it somewhere convenient. Sometimes it was things most mechanics never would have noticed. Kittie Hill has much of the charm and manner that has vanished from so many places.

Thank you for explaining your interest in those first few 'Masters. It's detective work, and you have a difficult case to solve :)

Jonathan
 
This is my first post...ever.

Early '80s had a '46 Cruiseair, aeromatic prop...great little airplane. Up to that time most of my flying was in Citabrias. Big difference in control forces; as delightful as the Cirtabria is, it's a bit heavy compared to the Cruiseair. Understatement. A few years later a '58 Cruisemaster came along. The need for speed, the sirens call. Helped rebuild from boxes of pieces...total restoration. Test flight...there I was climbing through 300 feet off the end of the runway (grass, 2000 feet) when the engine quit. Yikes! Vision narrowed down like I was looking through the centre of a toilet paper roll. Discovered that I needed three hands, one to pump the throttle, (who can resist!) one to pump the manual fuel pump, one to crank the trim, one to change fuel tanks, and one to fly. Sorry, that's more than three...anyway you get the point. The engine caught, ran for a moment then quit, ran then quit, ran a little, quit a lot. I'd watched a friend in a Champ turn back to the field when his engine quit on take off. He managed to get it pertty flat before hitting the ground, smacking wing tip to wing tip with a parked plane and spinning into the infield. He walked away but the Champ didn't. I wasn't on the field when a multi-thousand hour 747 captain had an engine stop on take off (Tigermoth) from the same strip and attempt to turn back. He and his passenger survived but spent many months in hospital with multiple broken bones. So did I try to turn back? Not a chance! Peering through my toilet roll I pumped, trimmed, changed tanks and swore I'd never fly again if I got safely on the ground. In the meantime the Master noisily gaining altitude, and quietly losing altitude, made it's way around the circuit and gently landed. Turns out my partner had had trouble assembling the fittings on the fuel lines so he filed them down (read sharpened) and jammed them into the hose, shaving the inside and making a perfect valve. The point is I came away from that experience with a ton of respect for the flying qualities of the Cruisemaster. Did I honour my vow never to fly again? Not a chance! Flew the Master for several years but had to give it up for a growing family. A picture of that particular plane is on the cover of Vol. 4 #1, now owned by somebody in Washington State. That's the history; now I have a 14-19, serial number 2012 in the shop. This could be the end for this particular aircraft...the butts of all four wing spars are severely checked and deformed. What to do, what to do?

Phil
 
Welcome to the land of the posting, Phil!

You might be interested in this ad in the Fly Market section of this site:

For Sale L & R flap for 14-19, very good condition, not covered. Also, set of 14-19 wing spars.
Russ 360-766-7600 email lougheed@cnw.com WA

I know it can be a long road back for these airplanes...even when you don't get them in pieces :cry:

Jonathan
 
Geeee you people have time on your hand writing all this, :roll: don't you go flying sometime? who was inquiring about a cricket soundtrack few days ago :lol: saying it was calm on this forum??

Ok just kidding, preparing to go and play with my old red tomorrow mprning. Calling for a nice but cool day. :wink:
Added 6 more pics on my page.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/my_bellanca/

click on the little magnifying glass above the pics to see it large.

Alain.
 
Thanks for the welcome Jonathan,

I've been a regular lurker on this site for a couple years now...ever since buying the 14-19-(2), (it's been re-engined). I talked with Russ awhile back about his spars, in fact I've talked to just about everybody who's advertised projects in the Fly Market that might include usable wings. The problem often is if the wings are attached sellers aren't keen to pull them off so you can have a good look. Once bitten, twice shy...there's no way I'd ever buy a Bellanca without going face to face with the spars.

I have a deal pending for an airframe and wings in Alaska. The idea would be to drop my 0470 into the 'new' airframe and fly it... then try to find the time, money and courage to repair the 'old' wings. Alexandria will scarf new butts on for about $15K/wing. You know how much (little) even pristine Masters sell for.

Ahh, what the heck, maybe I should chuck the whole thing and build an RV!

Phil :)
 
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