Tip tanks?
- Thread starter vikingman
- Start date
cruiseair74372
Member
I have not heared of or seen tip tanks. There are 2 different size aux tanks for the Viking. I have the 15Gal. tank and that gives me 5 hrs no reserve. My blatter will not go more than 4.5 anyway :lol: :lol: :lol:
Jonathan Baron
New member
Uh....Vikingman, are you flying the airplane frequently?
Does the cruise speed seem low to you?
Have you found range to be a problem on your trips?
Are you seeking solutions to problems you do not have?
Just fly the airplane...fly, fly, fly.
Jonathan
Does the cruise speed seem low to you?
Have you found range to be a problem on your trips?
Are you seeking solutions to problems you do not have?
Just fly the airplane...fly, fly, fly.
Jonathan
Jonathan,
I don't believe I ever said I had a problem with the aircraft. In fact it is an amazing plane! I simply was making the inquiry....
To answer your question I fly my plane about 400-450 hours per year.
On a serious note what is your experience with gear doors vs no gear doors on the viking?
I don't believe I ever said I had a problem with the aircraft. In fact it is an amazing plane! I simply was making the inquiry....
To answer your question I fly my plane about 400-450 hours per year.
On a serious note what is your experience with gear doors vs no gear doors on the viking?
Jonathan Baron
New member
Sorry for that attitude of mine, Vikingman. I find that a lot of new Bellanca owners don't wring out the aircraft and just enjoy it before they make improvements. I recalled (or mis-recalled) your saying that you were new to these airplanes. I had *no* idea that you're flying the heck out of it 
First off I own a Cruisemaster - a lower horsepower, earlier version of what became the Viking, except it has three tails and conventional landing gear. When they made the Viking they added up the surfaces of the three tails into one mighty vertical stabilizer that has similar flying qualities to the the aircraft when it had three: exceptional stability in turbulance without getting tail happy. Both have the Bellanca B airfoil (a bit of G.M.'s brilliance that combines a high speed, semi laminar flow taper wing, with great low speed characteristics. In the Cruiseairs and Cruisemasters the stall speed is lower than my Luscombe!
Onto your questions. Wheel farings have limited benefit because the portion of the wing they cover is the high pressure surface of the airfoil. Wheel farings on fixed gear, high performance aircraft can have an enormous effect on speed because the wheels are at a distance from the wing. I had some of those well-educated speed monkeys who make speed mods for a living look at the Bellanca wheel set-up - including a guy in Australia - and all concluded that, at best, you're looking at 3 additional knots IF they were to stay properly sealed.
As one guy at the Bellanca factory put it to me years ago, "We build them [gear doors] because they make customers feel that their Vikings are faster.
One area that showed more improvement, because it does not involve disrupting the high pressure surface, is the front wheel and cowling. But, as others have noted, this is a high dollar mod if you can find it. Andy Vano at the current Bellanca company may be able to help you with that, as they were incorporated into late models, and are used for the very limited production new Vikings.
With all speed mods, if they are true speed mods, for nearly all aircraft come out to 1000 dollars per knot. However, if you look at it in reverse - lower power needed to achieve the same speed - gas prices may make this seem more attractive than in the past.
As the terse sage of these forums, Randy Smith, said, however, you can do just about everything and still not see any substantial improvement. Each Bellanca, more so than with mass produced metal airplanes, is different. Part of this is due to wood and its response to the humidity where its kept, part of this is due to the individual hand crafting of the airplane, and part of it is due to ghosts and gremlins.
Nonetheless, perhaps more than any aircraft, save the Navion and the Swift, Bellancas have been subject to speed mod speculation. Decades ago a fellow named Kennedy at Santa Paula developed wheel faring doors for the 14-19 Cruisemaster and wanted to STC them. The Feds wanted them tested at Vne. The poor fellow crashed and died performing this test - not due to the mod, but due to propeller separation in a dive. That put a chill on the notion for quite some time until they were introduced on the Viking many years later.
I have a set of those gear doors but they will stay in a back corner of my hangar....not due to their dark heritage, but due to the sheer pain of installing them for likely no real gain. I have hand crafted metal wing root farings - another popular speed increasing notion of the older days - and I like the look of them, but they add no speed. As one fellow put it, they are among the mods that make G.M. laugh in his grave
For awhile microbalooning the wings was popular. You applied a fine layer of epoxy mixed with microbaloons to the wings. Mine had this mod when I bought my airplane. The wings sure look nice, and have zero sag between ribs. But I have no before and after numbers because the Bellanca came that way, as I said. The previous owner stressed how much sheer work this involved.
The speed mod that everyone agrees would make a major difference is hypothetical - if the wheels fully retracted, even if they required a top-side bump in the wing, the high pressure surface would be a fully, rather than semi, laminar flow. This was impractical to the limited resource New Delaware Bellanca factory, and it would be impractical today, alas.
Sorry to go on so regarding this issue V'man, but I became fascinated by the issue years ago and did quite a bit of investigating. Conclusion: you may be able to make your Bellanca go a bit faster, but not much and it will cost you: now and in the future IMO. I read a recent article regarding a fellow who went through the cowl mod, said he was happy with it, but never mentioned any hard before/after numbers.
Again, sorry I adopted a course attitude in my initial post to you. The speed mod issue triggers some often inappropriate reactions in me. For reasons that surpass my - and everyone's - understanding is the unexplained speed difference between one Bellanca and another. Generally Vikings are 160kt airplanes if all is well with the airplane, rigging and such. A few are faster, yet some are lucky to make 140kts. Ah, mystery!
Jonathan
First off I own a Cruisemaster - a lower horsepower, earlier version of what became the Viking, except it has three tails and conventional landing gear. When they made the Viking they added up the surfaces of the three tails into one mighty vertical stabilizer that has similar flying qualities to the the aircraft when it had three: exceptional stability in turbulance without getting tail happy. Both have the Bellanca B airfoil (a bit of G.M.'s brilliance that combines a high speed, semi laminar flow taper wing, with great low speed characteristics. In the Cruiseairs and Cruisemasters the stall speed is lower than my Luscombe!
Onto your questions. Wheel farings have limited benefit because the portion of the wing they cover is the high pressure surface of the airfoil. Wheel farings on fixed gear, high performance aircraft can have an enormous effect on speed because the wheels are at a distance from the wing. I had some of those well-educated speed monkeys who make speed mods for a living look at the Bellanca wheel set-up - including a guy in Australia - and all concluded that, at best, you're looking at 3 additional knots IF they were to stay properly sealed.
As one guy at the Bellanca factory put it to me years ago, "We build them [gear doors] because they make customers feel that their Vikings are faster.
One area that showed more improvement, because it does not involve disrupting the high pressure surface, is the front wheel and cowling. But, as others have noted, this is a high dollar mod if you can find it. Andy Vano at the current Bellanca company may be able to help you with that, as they were incorporated into late models, and are used for the very limited production new Vikings.
With all speed mods, if they are true speed mods, for nearly all aircraft come out to 1000 dollars per knot. However, if you look at it in reverse - lower power needed to achieve the same speed - gas prices may make this seem more attractive than in the past.
As the terse sage of these forums, Randy Smith, said, however, you can do just about everything and still not see any substantial improvement. Each Bellanca, more so than with mass produced metal airplanes, is different. Part of this is due to wood and its response to the humidity where its kept, part of this is due to the individual hand crafting of the airplane, and part of it is due to ghosts and gremlins.
Nonetheless, perhaps more than any aircraft, save the Navion and the Swift, Bellancas have been subject to speed mod speculation. Decades ago a fellow named Kennedy at Santa Paula developed wheel faring doors for the 14-19 Cruisemaster and wanted to STC them. The Feds wanted them tested at Vne. The poor fellow crashed and died performing this test - not due to the mod, but due to propeller separation in a dive. That put a chill on the notion for quite some time until they were introduced on the Viking many years later.
I have a set of those gear doors but they will stay in a back corner of my hangar....not due to their dark heritage, but due to the sheer pain of installing them for likely no real gain. I have hand crafted metal wing root farings - another popular speed increasing notion of the older days - and I like the look of them, but they add no speed. As one fellow put it, they are among the mods that make G.M. laugh in his grave
For awhile microbalooning the wings was popular. You applied a fine layer of epoxy mixed with microbaloons to the wings. Mine had this mod when I bought my airplane. The wings sure look nice, and have zero sag between ribs. But I have no before and after numbers because the Bellanca came that way, as I said. The previous owner stressed how much sheer work this involved.
The speed mod that everyone agrees would make a major difference is hypothetical - if the wheels fully retracted, even if they required a top-side bump in the wing, the high pressure surface would be a fully, rather than semi, laminar flow. This was impractical to the limited resource New Delaware Bellanca factory, and it would be impractical today, alas.
Sorry to go on so regarding this issue V'man, but I became fascinated by the issue years ago and did quite a bit of investigating. Conclusion: you may be able to make your Bellanca go a bit faster, but not much and it will cost you: now and in the future IMO. I read a recent article regarding a fellow who went through the cowl mod, said he was happy with it, but never mentioned any hard before/after numbers.
Again, sorry I adopted a course attitude in my initial post to you. The speed mod issue triggers some often inappropriate reactions in me. For reasons that surpass my - and everyone's - understanding is the unexplained speed difference between one Bellanca and another. Generally Vikings are 160kt airplanes if all is well with the airplane, rigging and such. A few are faster, yet some are lucky to make 140kts. Ah, mystery!
Jonathan